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The great act control and character limit debate Options
atmsalad
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 7:58:13 AM
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Tantives with versatile Han will wreck a lot of squads. Not to mention it can have a good matchup in daala.
thereisnotry
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:14:17 AM
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atmsalad wrote:
Tantives with versatile Han will wreck a lot of squads. Not to mention it can have a good matchup in daala.
Yep, there's another one that will be extremely complicated for Yobuck.
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:41:26 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
"In a surprising turn of events, every single player at GenCon has brought a solid Rock squad in anticipation of a large number of scissors squads. Surprisingly, TimmerB showed up with the only Daala squad and won the tournament easily."

BigGrin


Just to be clear, there is no way on Earth I would run Daala in this years GenCon champs. That is a promise.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:54:18 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
Tantives with versatile Han will wreck a lot of squads. Not to mention it can have a good matchup in daala.


If I'd met versatile Han STA with accurate furious assault at NZ Nationals (or Naboo Troopers), my plan was to bring in the Felucian Stormtrooper Officer with Pellaeon. My snowtroopers have 24 defence in cover, he has +8 attack; Han needs 16s to hit me.
atmsalad
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 1:18:05 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
Tantives with versatile Han will wreck a lot of squads. Not to mention it can have a good matchup in daala.


If I'd met versatile Han STA with accurate furious assault at NZ Nationals (or Naboo Troopers), my plan was to bring in the Felucian Stormtrooper Officer with Pellaeon. My snowtroopers have 24 defence in cover, he has +8 attack; Han needs 16s to hit me.


Granted that's in cover and the tantives would have charging as well. They are only hitting for ten, but it can still be helpful especially when they can ignore double movement squares to get around. Plus if you do that you don't have ozzel and with my build I have more over ride. I also use Rieken to to try to make it so the tantives only die when I would like for them to. I think that would be a good game, but I think knowing the squad and map would determine the winner.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:06:31 PM
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What's the exact squad? I guess I'm bringing in Ozzel if you've got more than 15-16 activations and Dodonna, which you probably do.
atmsalad
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 5:24:48 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
What's the exact squad? I guess I'm bringing in Ozzel if you've got more than 15-16 activations and Dodonna, which you probably do.


Indeed I do, I'll pm it
Jonnyb815
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 6:57:13 PM
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Like I have said before its like minis 2.0

Before all the new maps and the last two vsets that have hurt Arica, Yobuck, Lancer, Etc. All but a few of my games went to time and we all know that I am on of the slower players.

All I am saying is that there is more to the problem than meets the eye. Yes Gambit and the 3-2-1 rule will help but the change to more melee friendly maps and going away from the control that you could have vs those squads if you didnt have tempo with Arica, Yobuck and Lancer has not helped.

I get the reason to try and limit them but it has turned the game back into how it was before they came around in 2009.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:25:30 PM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
Like I have said before its like minis 2.0

Before all the new maps and the last two vsets that have hurt Arica, Yobuck, Lancer, Etc. All but a few of my games went to time and we all know that I am on of the slower players.

All I am saying is that there is more to the problem than meets the eye. Yes Gambit and the 3-2-1 rule will help but the change to more melee friendly maps and going away from the control that you could have vs those squads if you didnt have tempo with Arica, Yobuck and Lancer has not helped.

I get the reason to try and limit them but it has turned the game back into how it was before they came around in 2009.


It's an evolving game - and always has been. I think there's a huge jump around Alliance and Empire, where the game evolves from casual to competitive - there were suddenly lots of competitive Imperial and Rebel pieces all at once. Or the addition on mass killers, or the introduction of big GMA shooters, or Rieekan/Luke RC/General Crix Madine all in one set. They're all big changes too.

Strafe and gallop pieces aren't that fun for new players, so it makes sense to limit them. I think the game will evolve to have some lighter mass killers (the new Mandos that have been previewed for set 9 are a good example), that don't wipe out an entire squad like a Lancer can. Paper arguably has an edge at the moment with less effective mass killers around, but I'm sure the designers are aware of the issue and are working on it.

I really think changes to the maplist are largely irrelevant. I like having 21 maps available for tournaments, variety is a good thing. I like having to adapt to a variety of maps and squads on the fly. Throne Room (Arica's best map, right?) was very shooty - I think having maps where Arica doesn't prosper is a good thing.

I've played 15 games in 3 Majors in NZ over the last year, all with reasonably high activation squads, and have had exactly one unfinished game. I think you can finish games most of the time if you play at a reasonable speed.

I like how you complain about swarms dominating, yet on the Daala errata thread a few months ago, you said:
Jonnyb815 wrote:
I am pissed that you did this. Glad I don't play anymore.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 7:37:06 AM
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Maps are 50% of the game. 65% of the reason why I did so well at regionals and events back in the day was because of the maps. I say only 35% was really my skills.

From my understanding since we went to 200 for the post part at least 50% if games were finishing from the start of that to 2012.

Arica, Yodabuck, Lancer + Maps were gatekeepers be more balanced out tempo control.

You take that away and get long games that go to time way too much. I understand there needs to be changes but this is more of a fun game now because of the numbers and how times have changed.

All I am saying a big reason why the game is not balanced right now is because of maps and taking away the gate keeper that was part of the game for so many years away. There are a lot of other factors but thats a big one.


atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:59:38 AM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
Maps are 50% of the game. 65% of the reason why I did so well at regionals and events back in the day was because of the maps. I say only 35% was really my skills.

From my understanding since we went to 200 for the post part at least 50% if games were finishing from the start of that to 2012.

Arica, Yodabuck, Lancer + Maps were gatekeepers be more balanced out tempo control.

You take that away and get long games that go to time way too much. I understand there needs to be changes but this is more of a fun game now because of the numbers and how times have changed.

All I am saying a big reason why the game is not balanced right now is because of maps and taking away the gate keeper that was part of the game for so many years away. There are a lot of other factors but thats a big one.



Most people prefer to play rock, so when the gay keeper is a scissors squad your right that it helps the game, even helps keep high act squads down. Keeping to the same squad for years though isn't fun for anyone. So I am not glad people have perceived it to be daala, but I am not glad it isn't at least a partial scissors squad.

I like most of the maps we have now, a lot of the old maps made lancers and Arica have a big advantage. I don't like all of the maps we have now, but I think they have done a good job of balancing them.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:54:55 PM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
Maps are 50% of the game. 65% of the reason why I did so well at regionals and events back in the day was because of the maps. I say only 35% was really my skills.


I don't like an environment where the map list has too big an impact on the meta - then you get into Snowspeeder + Teth territory. I like the environment now, where if a map isn't too abusable by any one particular squad, it's in.

Jonnyb815 wrote:

From my understanding since we went to 200 for the post part at least 50% if games were finishing from the start of that to 2012.


We had more than 2/3 of our games finish at the NZ National tournament last week. That seems fine to me. In 2012 we used to struggle to get our games finished and we've got faster overall as a group. I don't think the meta has been affecting game completion - if anything the lack of scissors squads means more games are finishing (fingersandteeth had a really good post about that a couple of days ago).

I think that other people will agree that paper is a little out of control at the moment, but I don't think maps are an especially major driver of this.
countrydude82487
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:53:40 PM
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TheHutts wrote:


I think that other people will agree that paper is a little out of control at the moment, but I don't think maps are an especially major driver of this.


+1 to that. I actually like the Options for maps, Overall at least, That we have right now on the total restricted list. SO many of the WOTC maps were just streamlined that they became boring. Now it is hard to know 100% of the maps perfectly which makes it a real challenge. IT doesnt allow people to just rely on maps to win.
kezzamachine
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:43:42 PM
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For all competitive games in NZ over the last year to date, of the 182 games that have currently been played, we have 60% completion. That includes all our junior/less-experienced competitors too. That is 107 3pt wins, and 72 2pt wins (and 3 I'm trying to find the actual results for!). (Interestingly, there have only been 28 times when a 1pt loss has been awarded.)
Jonnyb815
Posted: Friday, July 18, 2014 9:54:09 AM
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My only answer to that is you all must be lou lol
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