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Thoughts on V8 Options
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 3:50:43 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
V8 has been out for a bit now. And I have been enjoying the reactions to the set. I'm glad that many are enjoying the pieces we made. Not to downplay Lou's, Les's, or Trevor's contributions to the set, but I feel that this was my set. And I do feel a bit bad about that. The other designers did do plenty of work on the set, but I just see my influence all over the set, a bit more than one would think in a four person team. If the other designers are insulted by this, feel free to say so. But now, I would like to reminisce on V8.

Let's start out with the set list. This was the first of the smaller sets. And I think there was a bit of a shock to a few at how harder it is to make a smaller list than it is to create a larger list. You have to be brutal in what makes it into the set. I really pushed for the Shadows theme, though. I love Black Sun, and between the demand for Guri, I just wanted to really work Black Sun back into a threat. I think the list ended up nicely, with plenty of compromise. Among the stuff I would've enjoyed to design that was cut were Raana Tey (more Covenant support), Tavion (more Reborn stuff), Tor Viszla (the original Death Watch), Sharad Hett (can't hate a Tusken Jedi), and Vader's Training Droid (loved reading that scene in Shadows of the Empire).

So let's talk about the pieces. Let's start off with the Cloned Emperor. A very in demand piece. So, some pressure was on. I wanted to avoid a 70pt piece, since there are plenty of Vader's in that range. Which left an 80pt piece, which only Sith had some. I figured that was a good point range for where people wanted a monster Palpatine. I had the idea for the ranged bodyguard for Palpatine for a long time, though I'm unsure if I actually posted that custom. Though it was originally a CE, but concerns were raised, thus the new SA, Absolute Devotion. That ability also allowed me to add the thematic/balancing effect of Unstable Clone. Not going to lie, it was there mainly for theme purposes, but it adds a nice balancing act with his ability to pass off damage. And with the high cost of his Force Powers, rerolling for Clone can be a tough decision. His Force powers were mainly logical choices. A Palpatine without Lightning, please. And since this version of Palpatine was the origin of Force Storm, why not give him the super version. Defense is pretty standard choice for beatsticks. Dark Assault was there primarily to up his damage to the levels required for his point range (though his Force Powers really do help). And the high cost was there to offset his high renewal. And of course, I tossed in some stuff for Royal Guards and Sentinels, though I knew the Sentinel stuff would likely only be used in higher cost games. Still, one playtest did work well with using a Sentinel in 200, so I guess it isn't as bad as I expected.

Next is the Grievious Bodyguard. I am truly proud of this piece. While I was intending to flesh out Magnaguards as sub-theme, I don't think the Officer worked out, but it got you this piece. I'm a big fan of Protective, if you look at this set and V5. So the whole Synergy + Protective was a great start. It's a bit difficult remembering when I had the idea for Extra Attack. I knew I didn't want to exclude using some of the older Grievii, who granted Double. It just dawned that Extra had never just been given out, and that it would work amazingly with all Grievii with a CE. About the only significant change was the dropping of Electrostaff. When I realized just how many attacks this guy could get, it dawned on me that maybe having that many chances to activate an enemy would not be a good thing. I am really happy how this piece came out. It can be either an efficient Melee threat, or you can go crazy for the 99pts to allow them to make 8 attacks.

I guess I should talk about the Mandos, since they seem to be getting some praise. I hate to break any illusions of grand planning, but they were mainly tossed in as Mando representations. There was no grand plan revitalize Mandos. The designs actually came out because we needed something for them to start playtesting. I got the idea from just reading some other threads about Mandos. I knew that the new Czerka was going to cause some issues. Which meant that they needed to get away from Twin. For some reason, the Clone w/Repeater and Rodian Raider inspired me. Multiple attacks sounded Mando. They went through some tweaks in playtesting, essentially adding Beskar'gam. Though, the commander had to do a bit of a reworking, as the initial design had pretty bad stats. I'm glad that they seem to be going over well.

The Vong were a fun way to add some diversity to them. I think I implemented the Domains a lot better than I did in V5. Focused more on synergy than making a piece that copies what the named piece does. Obviously, the Lah stuff works really well with Tsavong Lah. The Carr Scout was there to give Nom Bombs a revamp while also encouraging the use of Yomin Carr. Corrosive Acid seemed like a good ability to bring back and use with Spit Poison. The Choka Warrior was mainly there to fix the issues that the old mainstay of the Vong, the Jedi Hunter, had. Giving them an option with a base of over 10 attack will help them a lot more than the damage boosts. And with the 20 damage (which came after some debate), it should make needing a lot of the damage boosts unnecessary. We will see how well it does, as there isn't as much synergy with a certain piece as the other ones.

Cody was an update that I wanted to do, to make an option to compete with Rex. Obviously, he didn't get the same damage output, but he did get a lot of the fun things the old Cody had. The Flurry/Deadly combo is always fun. And upping his standard Rapport might help. If 5-6 pt Clone Troopers cause problems, I'm sorry. The CE was what it was to discourage usage with Rex. And, in case you haven't noticed, I like trying to encourage strategies of "staying still", not going with the standard Mobile/GMA kind of deals.

And of course, Black Sun, the main reason I wanted the Shadows theme. The Thug was made with the intention of giving Black Sun a decent, cheap grunt. An alternative to the Uggie was kind of a secondary choice, but I think the end result was good. The Falleen was pretty simple evolution of other BG pieces. The Togarian was a nice twist to the existing Vigos. GMA with Double Claw was a unique combination that we haven't seen on a piece before, and I liked making one of the Vigos a bit more melee oriented. The CE was there to pretty much go with a lot of the other CE stacking that the Black Sun Vigos were able to do. Guri evolved a lot from my initial idea, that I actually can't take any credit for her. She goes to Les. Xizor is how I envisioned a Fringe only centerpiece would be. Crimelord is there to encourage Fringe only squads. Sadly, Talon does it a bit better, but oh well. Still, he is a great update to the old Xizor, with his CE there to boost all those old Vigo squads if you wanted, though other Black Sun characters wouldn't hurt either. Not going to lie, Rival is there only for theme. About the only concern was the Xizor/Talon/Vigos combo, but it is a more expensive combo than the pre-existing Xizor/Gov.Tarkin/Vigo combo, which also has access to Mas and other Imperial options. I'm happy with how he turned out, and hope people enjoy playing Black Sun.

Now, it comes to why I'm writing this epic of a post. I am reminiscing on this set because I expect it to the be the last one I work on. I have enjoyed working on the Vsets for the most part. But, it requires me to be in a state of mind that isn't really helpful for me outside of the internet. And I am also completely willing to accept that if it seems most other people are having problems with me, that I might be the problem. So, I am stepping away from the game. It's not because I my view on the game and design seems incompatible with a lot of other designers, but because I need to move on for a variety of personal reasons. I'm not upset at anyone, but this is something I have to do. So, I wrote this to reminisce a bit about my last contribution to the game. It has been a good time for the most part.
General_Grievous
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:03:53 PM
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Joined: 1/8/2010
Posts: 3,623
What I appreciated about this set was no crazy broken pieces. It was actually pretty solid and subtle. Good without changing everything. Cool new Mando style of play. Melee Sep droids may be good. Vong got some thematic boosts. Republic commandos and Cody are sweet! (I have been wanting to see cheap clones for awhile). Fringe got the coolest a boosts with xizor, Mira and Boba. And New Republic got a Bastilla counter! Finally!
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:20:31 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
Sithborg,

Thank you for all your work on the game over the years. I hope you're still able to play and post even if you're not contributing in the ways you have in the past. I finally made it to GenCon this year. I got to meet a whole bunch of people I only knew as screennames. I wish we could have met there, too. I hope you continue to play and maybe we'll meet next year.

DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:58:22 PM
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Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 1,098
Location: Kokomo
Sithborg, thanks for your hard work and contributions over the years. Hope you find what your looking for.
leshippy
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:33:24 PM
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Thanks for giving me a little credit. It is always appreciated.
Weeks
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:35:16 PM
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Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
I actually prefer just regular orange juice personally......oh wrong V8

I really like the set. I didn't have hardly anything to do with this one so it was nice to go through the cards at gencon and try and come up with ideas for squads like a new booster pack again. Boba is a boss and I'm glad the Mandos got stuff that gets people excited about trying them more.
Deathwielded
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 7:06:48 PM
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Joined: 3/19/2013
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You will be missed! Thanks for everything you have contributed to this game!
swinefeld
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:46:50 PM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
I want to add my thanks for all your effort and expertise over the years, Scott. I really enjoy the subtlety of many of your designs. I hope you'll stick around, even if you have to heavily curtail your involvement with the game.

I think set 8 turned out really well. There were a good number of pieces that were solid concepts right out of the gate, and others that took a lot of input from everyone to iron them out into a good finished product. The creativity each designer brought to the set resulted in some really interesting and useful pieces.

Nice work, fellas. BlooMilk
jak
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:51:19 AM
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Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
Crying now we only have 1 moderator leftUnsure
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:53:14 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
jak wrote:
Crying now we only have 1 moderator leftUnsure


I will likely hang around to help with spambots and the occasional fight. I'm just not doing anything behind the scenes anymore.
DARPH NADER
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:58:52 AM
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Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 1,246
Location: SWMing now in the 936
Scott it was always a pleasure to be around you at the regionals and at GenCon. Your presence was missed this year and will also be missed as an active member of the SWM community. I count myself fortunate to have met you and hope our paths will cross again downstream sometime. All the best and thank you for everything you have done to support the game! BlooMilk BlooMilk BlooMilk
Chargers
Posted: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 9:47:54 AM
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Joined: 9/1/2008
Posts: 818
Location: Wisconsin
Thank you, Sithborg, for all you've done ... whether we knew you did it, had a suspicion you did it, or benefitted without knowing. Hope to see your posts on here for a long time to come.
Lou
Posted: Friday, September 5, 2014 9:04:42 AM
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Joined: 6/8/2008
Posts: 110
Thanks Scott for your help for many years!
kezzamachine
Posted: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:42:05 PM
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Joined: 9/23/2008
Posts: 1,487
Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
Thanks Sithborg! New Sidious rules! I've been wanting him for like ever.
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