fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:33 pm
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Cost 70?

hp 190
D 21
Att 16
Dmg 30

Double attack, Melee Attack, Deadly Attack
Djem So Mastery (Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.)
Soresu Style (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Sith'ari (Special abilities and Force Powers on this character may not be cancelled or ignored.)

Force 4, Force Renewal 1, Master of the Force 2
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Lightsaber Flurry (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 4 attacks at -10 Damage)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Overwhelming Force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)
Whirlwind Attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)

The Sith'ari will be free of limits.
The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them.
The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before.- Sith'ari Prophecy


Sith'ari saves having to get too wild to make the fig effective at his high cost.
Might not be necessary but its a simple way to keep him at the top of the heap as far as a damage dealer. He was the Sith'ari for what its worth so its not like anyone else can be it.

Big 30dmg hits, the classic 2 force 120 dmg with flurry and rage, very lord vader esq.
Whirlwind is a nice fit on him because of his big hits and rage. It plays with Revan Sith Lord well, apt, seeing as he learned so much from him.

I felt like you could put a lot of force powers on him but i think this guy just needs to be a beat. Token zap because he was awesome at it.

Soresu for range defense and cos he knew it well enough to teach Zannah
I opted not to put Jedi hunter on him.

He's a candidate for force fury but he seems pretty stacked now.

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Last edited by fingersandteeth on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith ApprenticePostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:10 am
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He's a beast.

Does Sitharai get by ysalamiri or Vong?

Just curious, Why starting with 4 FP with renewal?

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith ApprenticePostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:01 am
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TimmerB123 wrote:
He's a beast.

Does Sitharai get by ysalamiri or Vong?


no, although the only thing he can't do to vong is zap and reroll.

Quote:
Just curious, Why starting with 4 FP with renewal?

Original Emperor level of force. Doesn't have to be but i figured it was better than FR2.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith ApprenticePostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:50 pm
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Darth is not a title for a Sith Apprentice, so it needs to be one or the other.

I'm still a very firm believer we don't need another Darth Bane.

Also, as is, it competes with Lord Scourge, as beatstick is pretty much all you can do with him.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith ApprenticePostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:08 pm
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Darth is not a title for a Sith Apprentice, so it needs to be one or the other.

I'm still a very firm believer we don't need another Darth Bane.

Also, as is, it competes with Lord Scourge, as beatstick is pretty much all you can do with him.


I would be happy with him being Darth Bane, Sith'ari or some other name. Thats just what the agreed upon set list had him labelled as.

Darth Bane almost made it into Set 6 but Jason had collected Sions for sealed and so left it out. I assumed he was included due to high request.

Bane doesn't have to be a beatstick, its just the most common interpretation. He was master of force powers as well as brute force.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:18 am
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So just revisiting this piece.

I'm trying to hit flavour so it really captures Bane. He took the sith into hiding and used subterfuge and guile to build the empire hence stealth and cunning.
He was masterful with the force and so force focus allows him to put a bit of a tweak on some of the force powers adding damage to damaging force powers and increasing range. Best used by lightening which can be at 8 squares for 50. Kind of a Bane thing.
It also allows an 8 square leap but because it doens't specify a damage there is no +20 so its kind of expensive.
Focus rage gives +30 dmg.
The others arn't affected.

I made Sith'ari just that his force powers can't be cancelled. I wouldn't mind it being so that he always gets his djem so off but i don't know how odd a rules issue having a piece attack with overwhelming force hit a piece with sith'ari. Which unpreventable gets the nod?

Its been pointed out to me that unblockable damage on someone elses turn is a bit too much so he has brutal strike rather than overwhelming force.

Lastly, he should abide by the rule of two in some fashion. giving out cunning and stealth fits the theme. Although giving revan and cadeus stealth might be a bit silly. But they already have cunning.

Quote:
Cost 60’s-70’s
HP 180 (more than normal perhaps less than before)
Def 21 (20 seems to low)
Att 16 (standard basass)
Dmg 30 (power bane)

Unique, Melee Attack, Double Attack
Cunning attack
Djem So Mastery
Stealth
Sith’ari (This characters force powers may not be cancelled)

Force 2, Master of the Force 2, Force Renewal 2
Force Focus (force 2, For the rest of the turn, force powers that cause damage gain +20dmg, force powers with range gain +2 range)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Sith rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Whirlwind attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)
Brutal Attack (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: This character's attacks cannot be prevented and enemy characters attacked by this character cannot use special abilities or Force powers that respond to this character's attacks for the rest of the turn)

Commander Effect
If your squad only has one other character who’s name contains Darth that character gains Stealth and Cunning attack.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:12 am
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He's a badass alright. Malgus with stealth would be sick!

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:37 pm
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I've been poking around a bit and thought I'd check this for space.

This fits by dropping 2 full points on the font, squeezing some text, and with Cunning/Stealth undefined in both places. It's tiny (4.5pt), but given the character, not sure much can be done about it.

Changing Brutal Strike to Overwhelming Force and losing Whirlwind Attack gets to 5pt. (a wee bit better)


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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:23 am
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Cost 60’s-70’s
HP 180 (more than normal perhaps less than before)
Def 21 (20 seems to low)
Att 16 (standard basass)
Dmg 30 (power bane)

Unique, Melee Attack, Double Attack
Cunning attack
Djem So Mastery
Sith’ari (This characters force powers may not be cancelled)

Force 2, Master of the Force 2, Force Renewal 2
Force Focus (force 2, For the rest of the turn, force powers that cause damage gain +20dmg, force powers with range gain +2 range)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Sith rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Whirlwind attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)
Overwhelming force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)



was suggested that the piece loses stealth because of the shield tech, potential for VDCA6. Overwhelming force is back on because its less words and i think he should be able to respond overwhelmingly. Sith'ari is the toned down one at the moment.

Might revisit the CE, seems like he should have some shout out for the rule of two but i'm not sure what that is yet.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:30 am
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I think that is a good move. The more I thought about him with stealth (and giving stealth!) the more it scared me.

So the non-toned-down version of sith'ari includes SAs too? The only think I can think of that it would effect is his Djem-so (makashi). Am I missing anything else?

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:33 pm
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yeah, if sith'ari was boosted back then it would mean that he could always respond with Djem-so even in the presence of overwhelming force and the like. Makashi doesn't actually cancel djem so.

It was more useful when he has Soresu but soresu is gone now so it might be worth making the full on Sith'ari.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:45 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
Cost 60’s-70’s
HP 180 (more than normal perhaps less than before)
Def 21 (20 seems to low)
Att 16 (standard basass)
Dmg 30 (power bane)

Unique, Melee Attack, Double Attack
Cunning attack
Djem So Mastery
Sith’ari (This characters force powers may not be cancelled)

Force 2, Master of the Force 2, Force Renewal 2
Force Focus (force 2, For the rest of the turn, this character's force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's force powers is increased by 20)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Sith rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Whirlwind attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)
Overwhelming force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)



was suggested that the piece loses stealth because of the shield tech, potential for VDCA6. Overwhelming force is back on because its less words and i think he should be able to respond overwhelmingly. Sith'ari is the toned down one at the moment.

Might revisit the CE, seems like he should have some shout out for the rule of two but i'm not sure what that is yet.


Tweaked Force Focus a bit. Wording may still need to be rearranged. Important part, is "this character's powers", because I doubt you want to focus, only for Force Detonate (and the like) to be boosted. Took out the the +'s, for preference, again, can be reworded later.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:24 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Cost 64
HP 180
Def 21
Att 16
Dmg 30

Unique, Melee Attack, Double Attack
Cunning attack
Djem So Mastery
Sith’ari (This characters force powers may not be cancelled and his special abilities may not be ignored)

Force 2, Master of the Force 2, Force Renewal 2
Force Focus (force 2, For the rest of the turn, this character's force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's force powers is increased by 20)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Sith rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Whirlwind attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)
Overwhelming force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)



PT?

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:39 am
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This is going to be my disliked piece of the set. Not at all what I wanted out of him in his inclusion on the set list.

So....PT.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:38 am
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fingersandteeth wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
Cost 64
HP 180
Def 21
Att 16
Dmg 30

Unique, Melee Attack, Double Attack
Cunning attack
Djem So Mastery
Sith’ari (This characters force powers may not be cancelled and his special abilities may not be ignored)

Force 2, Master of the Force 2, Force Renewal 2
Force Focus (force 2, For the rest of the turn, this character's force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's force powers is increased by 20)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Sith rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Whirlwind attack (Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice)
Overwhelming force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)




Serious badass. I am a little scared thinking of him + Caedus. Group them together and lightning the crap out of them, or whirlwind attack.

Question - does force focus work on sith rage? If so, Bane can hit everyone adjacent for 160 damage. Back to him and Caedus . . .

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:26 pm
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
This is going to be my disliked piece of the set. Not at all what I wanted out of him in his inclusion on the set list.

So....PT.


I'm sorry to hear that. The design has persisted because of little input outside of what i've posted. It's certainly not set in stone.

TimmerB123 wrote:
Serious badass. I am a little scared thinking of him + Caedus. Group them together and lightning the crap out of them, or whirlwind attack.


he doesn't force anyone to run at them or cancel commander effects so you have to get in position to do it. Has very little defense. He's all offense and that doesn't usually fly in todays game. He works far better with Revan than Cadeus.

Quote:
Question - does force focus work on sith rage? If so, Bane can hit everyone adjacent for 160 damage. Back to him and Caedus . . .


no he can't.

He can spend force twice. So force focus and rage = +30 dmg hits but you can't get a whirlwind or a leaping assault off so you are most likely only going to rage/focus on AoO's as leaping rages will be more efficient.

either whirlwind and leap can do 80 with rage. Lightning can do 50 at 8 squares with focus (biggest boost with focus).

If you want to force focus and leap you get 8 spaces but no damage boost.

You can whirlwind rage for 80 dmg on all adjacent, or you can be based and force focus rage for 120 dmg (30 dmg base, rage + focus = 60dmg hits and he can do 2)

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:03 pm
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Alright.

Still a serious badass. Probably tier 1, but that was the goal.

PT

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:36 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
This is going to be my disliked piece of the set. Not at all what I wanted out of him in his inclusion on the set list.

So....PT.


I'm sorry to hear that. The design has persisted because of little input outside of what i've posted. It's certainly not set in stone.



Oh, I'm not upset. I think every designer is going to have one piece per set that doesn't really sit well.

I think we needed a different angle on Bane rather than combat monstrosity Sith Lord, as that's been done...twice. That's why I listed him as apprentice, as I saw that time as a more cunning and treacherous Bane, though any time would apply. Everyone else wanted a combat monster, so that's how it works. Any design in that vein would evoke the same dislike for me, but that's what it is.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:51 pm
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I thought that Force Focus would only work on lightning or something else that actually did damage. But NOT on Rage, Whirlwind, etc, as Those Force Powers don't do damage, but adjust the damage that your normal attack does.

BTW as a side note, how does this guy compare to Malgus in power level, which then leads more to whether he is costed appropriately.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:01 pm
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i think malagus, because of FYD, is generally more dangerous which is why this guy is slightly cheaper.

With force focus the intention is to be able to boost the range of lightning and leaping assault and increase the damage output of rage and lightning.

Because Rage has a damage stat in the ability Focus will boost it.

If the wording doesn't make this clear then it should be changed.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:07 pm
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I would think that if it worked on Rage, that it would also work on Whirlwind, but where is that Scott when you need him.

This guy is intended then to do up to 80ish per attack with Rage, Focus, Cunning, Bandon's CE plus his 30 base damage?

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:21 pm
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urbanjedi wrote:
I would think that if it worked on Rage, that it would also work on Whirlwind, but where is that Scott when you need him.


You're probably thinking of Force Whirlwind rather than Whirlwind Attack.


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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:23 pm
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i keep forgetting about cunning as i've gone through a few itterations.

perhaps it is better if focus doesn't work on rage or remove cunning. I now know where Tim got 160 from (actually 140).

But yes, the intent is that he hits you like a mac truck but his dmg output is tempered by whether the attack is blockable or if he wants to move to do it.

I don't think he will fit well with Bandon. Bandon works best with the little guys, with big sith he finds himself costed out pretty quickly.

Bane will need to be run with Revan, Malgus or Cadeus in order to be successful. You then probably want Jaq and lobot putting you in the mid to high 170s depedning on his final cost and who is with him.

The design I'm trying to implement is one of scalability.

Bane standing still not moving = whirlwhind/rage, rage/focus, rage/overwhelming
Bane moving = leaping assault/focus, leaping assault/overwhelming, leaping assault/rage
Bane zaping = focus/lightning, move 8/zap (it may seem that the move 8 zap is redundant but you may wish to alter targets via movement rather than just extend range with focus).
AoO's = rage/overwhelming, rage/focus

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:09 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Because Rage has a damage stat in the ability Focus will boost it.

If the wording doesn't make this clear then it should be changed.


No, it does not. Rather than make it apply to Sith Rage et all, just add another damage bonus.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:14 pm
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Sith'ari does seem to be an issue. With it you can't cancel his FPs or SAs, and when he uses Overwhelming Power you can't do anything about his attacks. That's a whole lotta unstoppable.

One way to tone down Sith'ari slightly would be to make it a force power - so you can get that effect, but have to spend a FP and use one of your two times spending force to do it.

Force Power:
Sith'ari [1 force point: For the rest of this turn, this characters force powers may not be cancelled and his special abilities may not be ignored]

Though we might want to think of a different name if we go that route so it can be used in the future

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:53 pm
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added PT marked stats above
(slow getting to it)
Quote:
7/10/13
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 64

Hit Points 180
Defense 21
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Cunning Attack [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round]

Djem So Style Mastery [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.]

Sith’ari [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled and his special abilities may not be ignored]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Whirlwind attack [Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice]


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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:24 am
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Sith'ari does seem to be an issue. With it you can't cancel his FPs or SAs, and when he uses Overwhelming Power you can't do anything about his attacks. That's a whole lotta unstoppable.


If you could cancel his force powers he becomes a turd because of Mace LotLS and luke as all he really has is force based attacks.

I don't know how you can have a force power that renders force powers uncancellable. You just cancel the 1st power and then the second power and it achieves nothing.

The idea is that he is just irresistible but with that he has no defense. I think with force focus not working on rage he maxes at 100dmg (120 with Bandon) and he can't do that unstoppable without being stationary.

it just forces you to get to him before he gets to you, which is the point.

Perhaps the SA aspect of sith'ari can be removed, cunning go lower and cost altered. If you can cancel force powers he loses his function.

The whole Idea is to break apart "rock" squads.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:15 am
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Quote:
7/10/13
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 64

Hit Points 180
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Cunning Attack [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round]

Djem So Style Mastery [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.]

Sith’ari [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus [Force 1: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Whirlwind attack [Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice]

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:25 pm
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Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 64

Hit Points 180
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Cunning Attack [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round]

Djem So Style Mastery [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.]

Sith’ari [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Whirlwind attack [Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice]
[/quote]

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swinefeld Online
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:50 pm
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edited Sith'ari to FPs only in main list


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urbanjedi Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:47 am
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 70

Hit Points 180
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Cunning Attack [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round]
Jedi Hunter (or Hatred)

Djem So Style Mastery [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.]

Sith’ari [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Sith Lightning 4 [Force 4, replaces attacks: range 8; 50 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Lightsaber Assault

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Whirlwind attack [Force 1, replaces turn: Attack each adjacent enemy twice]
[/quote]

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urbanjedi Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:51 am
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What about something along these lines?

Raised cost to 70

Swapped Cunning for Jedi Hunter (or Hatred), not sure if we had cunning for the damage boost or the att boost or both.

Combined Focus and Lightning to a new lightning. This will take away many of the questions that many of our casual players will have about what specifically focus effects.

Switched Leaping Assault back to regular assault to help save on FP.

Dropped to FR1.

Can take or leave Overwhelming. Not a fan personally (but if others want it then I am fine with it).

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urbanjedi Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:58 am
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Deri,

If you want him to be awesome if he doesn't move (as far as high damage) but trade that out when he does move, what about something like Deadeye or Mighty Swing or even changing sith rage over to something like Sith Hatred (1FP: Usable only on this characters turn, if this character doesn't move it gets +20 Dam on all attacks this turn).
If we switch to something like that we could probably even drop the alternative damage boost as well (cunning or whatever it is we end up going with).

The big thing is (which multiple people have pointed out) is that he has enough HP naturally to be able to not get 1 shotted by really anything. This makes him very tricky because even if you get to hit him first you wont kill him (and he probably kills you) and if he gets to hit YOU first (with Revan or Malgus or whatever) then it just goes from bad to worse.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:16 am
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those changes look pretty reasonable.

I'm not sure about the new lightning with Fr1. The trade off with Force focus and FL2 was that he could use the cheaper one if he wanted to save force or whatever.

I think JH instead of cunning works better thematically and takes away from his Revan induced top end which is probably good.

I'm not sure about adding a +20-30 damage modifier (rage + sith hatred) and keeping Whirlwind, as it is Trevor has probably convinced me that sweep is the way to go.

The main aspect i was aiming for was consistency. His damage sticks. It doesn't have to be like 120 or even 100 dmg but when he his you, you can count on it making a mark. That's really been the aspect that i've been trying to adhere to.
Whether that's just limiting his top end entirely or making the trade off between moving and losing the top end verses standing still and dishing out the pain i'm not sure yet.

I kind of need to assimilate all the comments but i think your version is in the right direction.

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urbanjedi Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:04 pm
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I meant using Sith Hatred (or deadeye or mighty swing) instead of Rage, but he could get Rage anyway from the ghost at a cost.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:14 pm
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His cunning is now JH which is consistant with WotC and theme. Focus is now scalable 10 dmg/2 squares.

Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 63

Hit Points 170
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy with a force rating]

Djem So Style [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.]

Sith’ari [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

lightsaber sweep [Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once]


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Lou Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:55 am
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Next time Jason and I get together we can PT the new stats but I still think He needs to cost 70 and have rapport 5 with Zannah.


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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:06 am
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is there a specific reason why 70?

His output has been measured and his cost increased in the newest stats.

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Lou Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:33 am
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I am a little worried about him replacing Malgas in Sith squads. I want the option of both squads.


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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:06 pm
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We might also want to think about changing the name of Sith'ari (the ability) to something more neutral. It seems like something that might have a slight chance of being used again - but if we leave it as that name - it kills it all.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:19 pm
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Its wasn't something I wanted to proliferate. I consider it pretty radical and used it to make Bane stand out as the Big Sith Bad Ass.

But if you think that other force users might be applicable it could just be called "irresistible force" or something.

My opinion is to kill it all. *cue thrash guitars*

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:42 pm
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It's only as badass as the force powers are, so it's innately scalable (outside a republic force user less than Jorus' cost).

It's actually very simple and straightforward. I certainly wouldn't want to see it used a lot, but I could see it on a future yoda, or something like that.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:22 pm
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i'm not opposed to it and will leave it to consensus.

Lou wrote:
I am a little worried about him replacing Malgas in Sith squads. I want the option of both squads.


The figs are pretty different functionally so i think that's unlikely. Malgus has much more to his game with FYD. Its a movement breaker all on its own and he can silence shooters with it, turn off CE's and generally dictate who on the opposing squad will get to function in the next round. He pairs devastatingly with Cadeus and presents a very tough challenge to face because he can sit out of LOS and dominate gambit with DA and whatever else you give him. Malgus is a centerpiece of a squad in of himself because of FYD, you might actually want to pair the two of them using Malgus to draw people into Bane.

Bane on the other hand is much more straight up. He's more of a nuke figure, a beat who cuts through all the chaff. He pairs better with Revan than Cadeus (although the option is there). A simpler beat design which i feel is necessary at the moment because Cadeus, Revan and Malgus have brought a lot of control to the Sith faction. Bane supplies some reliable muscle to the Sith losing top end power for consistency.

i don't think Bane should have a comparable cost to Malgus because he doesn't bring as much to the table. He's tough for sure but he has a definite weakness that a lot of recent tanks haven't have the miss-fortune of receiving.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:19 pm
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Its wasn't something I wanted to proliferate. I consider it pretty radical and used it to make Bane stand out as the Big Sith Bad Ass.

But if you think that other force users might be applicable it could just be called "irresistible force" or something.

My opinion is to kill it all. *cue thrash guitars*

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:42 pm
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It's only as badass as the force powers are, so it's innately scalable (outside a republic force user less than Jorus' cost).

It's actually very simple and straightforward. I certainly wouldn't want to see it used a lot, but I could see it on a future yoda, or something like that.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:22 pm
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i'm not opposed to it and will leave it to consensus.

Lou wrote:
I am a little worried about him replacing Malgas in Sith squads. I want the option of both squads.


The figs are pretty different functionally so i think that's unlikely. Malgus has much more to his game with FYD. Its a movement breaker all on its own and he can silence shooters with it, turn off CE's and generally dictate who on the opposing squad will get to function in the next round. He pairs devastatingly with Cadeus and presents a very tough challenge to face because he can sit out of LOS and dominate gambit with DA and whatever else you give him. Malgus is a centerpiece of a squad in of himself because of FYD, you might actually want to pair the two of them using Malgus to draw people into Bane.

Bane on the other hand is much more straight up. He's more of a nuke figure, a beat who cuts through all the chaff. He pairs better with Revan than Cadeus (although the option is there). A simpler beat design which i feel is necessary at the moment because Cadeus, Revan and Malgus have brought a lot of control to the Sith faction. Bane supplies some reliable muscle to the Sith losing top end power for consistency.

i don't think Bane should have a comparable cost to Malgus because he doesn't bring as much to the table. He's tough for sure but he has a definite weakness that a lot of recent tanks haven't have the miss-fortune of receiving.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:45 am
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alternative name to sith'ari:

Irrepressible Force Master

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:12 pm
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Talking to the playtesters;

General consensus is that he won't replace Malagus (no huge movement breaker, no defense). Likely paired with Revan, some possibility with Cadeus. Tough beat but his advantages and disadvantages are pretty obvious and thus is his strategy.

He will likely get one of his big moves off, 2 if you pay 17 more points and then his deepstrikes become reliant on the ghost.

This puts him in an 8 activation Revan, Bane, Jaq, lobot, filler squad

Took master of Tim's name suggestion, added it.

Still needs tests but i don't think there will be too many changes to this.
Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 63

Hit Points 170
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy with a force rating]

Djem So Style [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.]

Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

lightsaber sweep [Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once]


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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:13 pm
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urbanjedi Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:13 pm
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What if we made him Base 20 Dam but made him Jedi Hunter +20? Would that hamper him too much? It would keep his damage the same against jedi but make him worse vs some of the shooters (not able to kill them in one activation without alot of help).

Any thoughts?

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:36 am
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I agree with Bronson's comment on the PTComm thread. Heavy shooters are already his weakness - no need to weaken him further in that direction specifically.

If anything - the whole level might need to come down just a smidge.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:41 pm
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TimmerB123 wrote:

If anything - the whole level might need to come down just a smidge.


I don't understand this comment

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:37 pm
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It means I think he's very strong in general. No need to specifically handicap him more vs non-jedi, but depending on what PTs say with this version - if he comes across too strong we can make him slightly less strong overall - not just vs shooters

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:38 am
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Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 63

Hit Points 170
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Djem So Style [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.]

Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy with a force rating]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Lightsaber Sweep [Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once]



PT

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:04 pm
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Quote:
8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 63

Hit Points 170
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Djem So Style [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.]

Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy with a force rating]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Lightsaber Sweep [Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once]



PT


PT - main thread updated

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:54 am
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This guy got a lot of attention early and he was shown to be tough against rock and weak against scissors/paper.

He's about right IMO, tough but beatable.

He'll be force starved like the rock counters from set 6 and so fits in well with these current crop of unblockables.

I've been thinking whether its worth dropping Lightsaber sweep for Force Burst in an effort to attack high activation squads. He could pair it with Force Focus for 4 force and do a lot of damage but it may be too much, especially at this stage where we might not be able to test it but because of the talk of too many activations i thought it was at least something to entertain.

If we don't swap LS sweep for Burst then i think this guy is done.

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TimmerB123 Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:21 pm
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I think I like LS Sweep over Burst.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:56 am
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ok, then I'm done with this fig.

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:56 pm
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Done

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Post subject: Re: Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:48 pm
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done

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm
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Quote:
**updated 8/9/13
** DONE ** 8. Darth Bane, Sith'ari -- Sith -- RM: Bane
Cost 63

Hit Points 170
Defense 20
Attack +16
Damage 30

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Djem So Style [Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.]

Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy with a force rating]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and damage dealt by this character's Force powers is increased by 20]

Force Lightning 2 [Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target]

Leaping Assault [Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.]

Overwhelming Force [Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn]

Sith Rage [Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn]

Lightsaber Sweep [Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once]


**Done** FINAL

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LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:34 pm
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So this one is pushing how much text we can fit on the card by a bunch. I had to cut the definition of Jedi Hunter to fit everything. The text is going to be tough to read I think. In comparison to Douko BHC the font is the same size, but with this I was able to space the lines out by a point more then the BHC card.

If anything else has more text then this guy you might want to see what can be done.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:53 pm
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Great Work Les.

I think that works and i don't think anything comes as big as Bane in this set.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:33 am
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Here is what I see that needs to be changed:

Cost 63

Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers cannot be cancelled]

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and when they deal damage, deal an additional 20 damage.]


Nice job getting all that text on there - the line spacing will help readability.


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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:37 pm
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Also, if it doesn't screw up anything, the last 3 Force Powers are out of order which should be:

LS Sweep
Overwhelming F.
S. Rage

I totally glossed over that :(


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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:54 pm
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Les, are you saying we should remove abilities?

If you removed Sweep does it make it more manageable?

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LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:22 pm
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fixed
Removing sweep only gains you two lines and that isn't that much to make a huge difference. It is really the abilities that have 3-5 lines that really hurt. Look at the meditation sphere. It only have a few abilities, but they all need spelled out and that causes text to get small and cramped.

If you want to change something that is really up to you guys not me. People have to complain about something so you are just throwing them a bone.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:16 am
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Looks great to me

Awesome.

:fight:

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:41 am
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excellent... (Mr. Burns's voice)

:: swine's stamp of approval ::


Yeah, somehow I doubt we're gonna hear
Look at all that stuff on his card! Darth Bane shouldn't be that awesome! :lol:


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LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:55 pm
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Not sure why this still has caution sign on the main list?

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:07 pm
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Overlooked it last time I edited.


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Markedman247 Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:03 pm
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Question about intent:

Force Focus 2: does the damage boost aspect affect the Sith Rage?


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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:04 pm
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yes

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Markedman247 Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:32 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
yes


Thanks. I wanted to verify no missing word like "direct" to damage.

Chalk that up as a FAQ question to be.


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Sithborg Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:11 am
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No, it doesn't. Obviously it was overlooked at the beginning. And it was dropped and added in without a fix.

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:42 am
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Sithborg wrote:
No, it doesn't. Obviously it was overlooked at the beginning. And it was dropped and added in without a fix.


Is the wording good as is?


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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:24 am
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Markedman247 wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
yes


Thanks. I wanted to verify no missing word like "direct" to damage.

Chalk that up as a FAQ question to be.



Actually, Scott is right, it doesn't. He maxes at 100 dmg on force users, which can be unpreventable if he doesn't move.

Fury boosts his lightning range and power, and his LA distance but other than that doesn't boost anything else.

Rage is just +10 with Fury or not.

I forget that he has JH.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:25 am
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swinefeld wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
No, it doesn't. Obviously it was overlooked at the beginning. And it was dropped and added in without a fix.


Is the wording good as is?



Yes, this fig/card is done.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:43 am
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Sithborg, does Force Focus extend the range of Leaping Assault? I saw from the discussion that it was intended to, but Leaping Assault doesn't actually use the word 'range', so I wasn't sure if it counted as a ranged Force Power.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:55 am
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"within 6 squares" isn't a range?

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:57 am
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fingersandteeth wrote:
"within 6 squares" isn't a range?



Nope. I remember this coming up in another thread on another set. Actually, it may have been Kira's. I worded it specifically (akin to levitate) to not be boosted by Nomi's CE, which means Force Focus won't catch it either.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:59 am
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i give up

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:02 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
i give up



So rereading this thread, as sometimes, bits and pieces flowing in slowly break up the conversation: Force Focus is only going to work in conjunction with Force Lightning, and not Sith Rage and Leaping Assault. However, Deri wants it to work for all 3.

Is this correct?

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:06 pm
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initially all 3, but i dropped Sith Rage because it was problematic to word for it.

If I had realized that it would only work with one power I would have nixed it ages ago.

if it can be worded to work with LA then good.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:39 pm
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Current wording, works for Lightning:

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and when they deal damage, deal an additional 20 damage]

===

Proposed wording, intended to work for Lightning and Leaping Assault:

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, distances listed in this character's Force powers are increased by 2 and when this character's Force powers deal damage, they deal an additional 20 damage]

Glossary entry to clarify what is meant by 'distances'. (This is rough and would need to be cleaned up):

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, when this character's Force powers deal damage, they deal an additional 20 damage. Additionally, the distances listed in the Force Powers (such as range and movement) are increased by 2 squares. Adjacency is not a distance so the range of abilities that require adjacency are not affected.]

===

Proposed wording, intended to work for Lightning, Leaping Assault, and Sith Rage:

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, damage listed in this character's Force powers is increased by 20 and distances listed in this character's Force powers are increased by 2]

Glossary entry to explain 'distance' would be similar to the one above.

Sithborg would need to confirm that the proposals work. Also, I have not scoured the list of other Force powers to make sure there are no unintended consequences with the proposed wording if Force Focus is mixed with other Force powers.


Last edited by FlyingArrow on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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fingersandteeth Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:15 pm
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I'm thinking this, just adds a damage stat and while its not directly the same thing it is almost 95% of the time, and does a little bit less and a little bit more in others. I dropped the damage to account for any advantages in movement.



Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to force powers that target.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:02 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to targeted Force powers.


Just checking that this is not an unintended consequence:

This would provide a very expensive, very limited Mobile Attack option. (Possibly GMA, depending on whether this movement prevents the use of extra attacks. Either way, that should be specified in the glossary.) Leaping Assault would almost always be a better choice than activating Force Focus twice anyway, so it's probably not an important consideration. 2 Force Furies would only be useful to pop in and out of cover or avoid being stuck next to an immobile Melee attacker.

Wording changed to match Force Fury 19.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:11 pm
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Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled]

Just wanted to make sure I understand this and it matches designer's intent.

All this ability says is that this character's force powers are not susceptible to Force Defense or Force Absorb. (Unless there are other ways to cancel Force powers that I am forgetting.)

This character still may not spend force points while within 6 squares of Ysalamiri.
This character has no extra ability to affect characters with Force Immunity.
This character is still susceptible to Sever Force and Force Suppression.
This character's Force points can still be stolen.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:52 pm
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
"within 6 squares" isn't a range?


Nope. I remember this coming up in another thread on another set. Actually, it may have been Kira's. I worded it specifically (akin to levitate) to not be boosted by Nomi's CE, which means Force Focus won't catch it either.


I just searched for Sithborg's ruling on this and I couldn't find the ruling.

"Within 6 squares" apparently does refer to a 'range' for Vong SAs, based on the wording of the Seer's CE.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:56 pm
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I think it has more to do with the way Assault works rather than the way it's worded. I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure it came up that it couldn't be boosted by Nomi, which I was okay with.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:14 pm
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Looking all the way back into Nomi's thread, I may be misremembering. Perhaps Leap Assault can be extended; maybe Scott will weigh in on this.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:30 pm
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FlyingArrow wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to targeted Force powers.


Just checking that this is not an unintended consequence:

This would provide a very expensive, very limited Mobile Attack option. (Possibly GMA, depending on whether this movement prevents the use of extra attacks. Either way, that should be specified in the glossary.) Leaping Assault would almost always be a better choice than activating Force Focus twice anyway, so it's probably not an important consideration. 2 Force Furies would only be useful to pop in and out of cover or avoid being stuck next to an immobile Melee attacker.

Wording changed to match Force Fury 19.


Yeah, that's the extra bonus I mentioned earlier and why I reduced the dmg. The issue is that this guy really can't have any more text and this reduces it and makes the ability more streamlined.

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:37 pm
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Irrepressible Force [This character’s Force powers may not be cancelled.

All this ability says is that this character's force powers are not susceptible to Force Defense or Force Absorb. (Unless there are other ways to cancel Force powers that I am forgetting.)


Yeah, it's defense absorb protection only.
Quote:
This character still may not spend force points while within 6 squares of Ysalamiri.
This character has no extra ability to affect characters with Force Immunity.
This character is still susceptible to Sever Force and Force Suppression.
This character's Force points can still be stolen.

Correct to all

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:43 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
I'm thinking this, just adds a damage stat and while its not directly the same thing it is almost 95% of the time, and does a little bit less and a little bit more in others. I dropped the damage to account for any advantages in movement.



Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to force powers that target.


If Force Focus is not being changed, it has an unnecessary period:

Force Focus 2 [Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and when they deal damage, deal an additional 20 damage.]


If the most recent proposal is used, here is more standardized formatting:

Force Focus 2 [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: Immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to targeted Force powers.]


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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:42 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
I'm thinking this, just adds a damage stat and while its not directly the same thing it is almost 95% of the time, and does a little bit less and a little bit more in others. I dropped the damage to account for any advantages in movement.

Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to force powers that target.


This concept seems pretty good. So you're forgoing damage boosts on attacks?
(since he has Rage)


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:26 am
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Looking all the way back into Nomi's thread, I may be misremembering. Perhaps Leap Assault can be extended; maybe Scott will weigh in on this.


I just asked on Bloomilk:

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default. ... 492#149492

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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:40 am
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swinefeld wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
I'm thinking this, just adds a damage stat and while its not directly the same thing it is almost 95% of the time, and does a little bit less and a little bit more in others. I dropped the damage to account for any advantages in movement.

Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to force powers that target.


This concept seems pretty good. So you're forgoing damage boosts on attacks?
(since he has Rage)



I thought about adding +10 Damage on all attacks this round but erred on the side of caution.

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:22 am
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fingersandteeth wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
I'm thinking this, just adds a damage stat and while its not directly the same thing it is almost 95% of the time, and does a little bit less and a little bit more in others. I dropped the damage to account for any advantages in movement.

Force Focus 2: Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: immediately move 2 squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. This turn, +10 damage to force powers that target.


This concept seems pretty good. So you're forgoing damage boosts on attacks?
(since he has Rage)



I thought about adding +10 Damage on all attacks this round but erred on the side of caution.

Probably a wise choice considering potential reuse of this power in the future.

Scott's wording (intent) about 'when they deal damage' is important, as otherwise non-damaging stuff might gain damage. At least I think that was part of the reason for that change to the original wording.

I'll mull that over; perhaps he'll comment on it in the meantime.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:21 pm
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swinefeld wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
I thought about adding +10 Damage on all attacks this round but erred on the side of caution.

Probably a wise choice considering potential reuse of this power in the future.

Scott's wording (intent) about 'when they deal damage' is important, as otherwise non-damaging stuff might gain damage. At least I think that was part of the reason for that change to the original wording.

I'll mull that over; perhaps he'll comment on it in the meantime.


'when this character deals damage' would cover both attacks and damage-dealing force powers without granting damage to non-damaging force powers.


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Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:39 pm
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Looking all the way back into Nomi's thread, I may be misremembering. Perhaps Leap Assault can be extended; maybe Scott will weigh in on this.


So leaping assault is extended by Nomi's CE (confirmed on Bloomilk).

Ergo

Force Focus boosts Bane's range of leap.

Therefore,

Fig is done with the last card posted as being correct unless there are other errors.

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:25 pm
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fingersandteeth wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Looking all the way back into Nomi's thread, I may be misremembering. Perhaps Leap Assault can be extended; maybe Scott will weigh in on this.


So leaping assault is extended by Nomi's CE (confirmed on Bloomilk).

Ergo

Force Focus boosts Bane's range of leap.

Therefore,

Fig is done with the last card posted as being correct unless there are other errors.

Alrighty then.
I think there is an unneeded period at the end of the Focus def, but considering where we are at with card images, I'm very much inclined to ignore it and move on. DONE.


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Sithborg Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:27 pm
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Good. And it definitely appears good to have waited a bit to get my brain back in order before coming back into the section.

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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: **Done** Darth Bane, Sith'ariPostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:31 pm
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One last little thing (my fault)

Force Focus does not need a period at the end if you get a chance to take it out

not a big deal, I'm just owning the miss :D