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Klatooinian Assassin Options
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:03:59 PM
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Dr Daman wrote:
I get the feeling this thread is kinda off topic. It reads a lot like another one I was just looking at and I'm pretty sure we don't need two threads saying the same stuff.

As for the Klat Assassins, I think they are very powerful, but I don't see them tearing up the tournament tables. If there was to be a change, I don't think it needs to be too drastic. I quite like Jim's ideas and maybe they warrant some further investigation.




true back to klats:

for 12 points they are crazy overpowered. the counters put out for them are basically useless IMO. the republic commando is pretty good, but seeing as how they have to work their way adjacent to target them who cares really. defuse bomb is a cool idea in theory, but I think it ends up being like black ops, good in theory, but never really works out. of course they could put defuse bomb on a piece that has more then 30-60 hitpoints, but as of right now it is just not enough.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:32:08 PM
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jen'ari wrote:

-snip-


Wizards made plenty of changes over the course of the game, it's called errata. Some were because of errors, some were to close loopholes, some were to simplify things, and others were for clarification. No errata was ever issued to nerf a character, and GOWK himself never received an errata. What he saw was a ban in competitive play, followed by a restriction (Boba Fett, BH also got a restriction for just the Dynamic Duo format). This was not done by WotC; It was done by the player's committee, which at that point was the same people who started the v-sets. Also, this was only for sanctioned, competitive play because it was only a problem for sanctioned, competitive play, not casual play.

Both the ban and restriction were not taken lightly and had several months of debate beforehand (and afterhand as well) with many on both sides on the fence. Ultimately, it was decided to go forth with the ban because at that point in time, GOWK restricted the meta so badly that less than a half-dozen squads were viable in competitive play, and such a restriction would have ensured the death of the competitive game.

As for the topic on hand, a bump up in price seems to be the best option if a nerf is chosen. The reason being that a fringe character should cost more than a comparative factioned character because of their overall versatility from being able to be paired up with anyone.
General_Grievous
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2015 2:08:20 AM
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TheHutts wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
It's not that I am against Poggle being changed. He isn't a problem up here and I hear down in New Zealand he is more of a pain with Durge.


Out of curiosity, what Separatist builds do you see?

My version of events is that Poggle is so good that he's simply an auto-include for Separatist competitive builds - you spend 60-75 points on Poggle, Drones, Lobot, and San Hill, and you get an awesome squad backbone that can out-activate most other builds, has access to initiative control, a source of direct damage, and tempo control. It's too good to pass up for almost any Separatist builds, and it's always been around in the competitive game since Poggle's release. It's just with the release of a Separatist power piece in the Commando Droid Officer that Separatists have switched from Tier 1 to overly dominant - I think that it's really the first Separatist piece that's been significantly undercosted since the Poggle rapport in the first v-set.

I can see your frustration with Wuher - the droid reserves are an unfortunate side effect, but I don't see it influencing the competitive game too much. Seps are still by far the best reserves faction IMO, just because San Hill stops the MTB counter from working. You can have Dooku SL with the 69 point Sidious for force renewal and unlimited anticipation.


Up here in the great white north we may just be classier about it. As a playgroup we agreed not to use the lancer and for Poggle/drones I am the only one that rarely brings them for a beatstick team. I also play the most separatists and usually I bring:

Dooku/Grievous HoH
Wheelbike/Tann
Sep Reserves
Battle droid swarm
B2 swarm
Commando Droid snipers
And lately Huges

I actually don't play with the officer team because it's too easy and enjoy the challenge, same principal behind lancer. And bringing Drones as am auto include just seems boring. Now a sea of battle droids, that is my jam. Bring on a Grievous with prideful for sep droids whose name contain battle droid and I am happy.

As for the reserves I wish that they could be a viable tournament competitive build. It's just unfortunate that a 9 point fringe piece automatically nerfs the whole team, can't bring swarm because they are too expensive. Can't bring 20-21 point pieces because he makes them cost to much and is just generally kicking a barely competitive team while they are down.

I have a soft spot for reserves and huges and want them to succeed in game. I even played a republic Pong Krell reserves team to second place in out regional last year.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2015 3:00:19 AM
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Regarding the Klat Assassin, I think of the possible errata discussed I think bumping his cost to 16 is the best idea. However, like I said, I haven't seen him much in competitive play lately. That's not to say he isn't a problem, he's just not been a problem where I've played lately. Has he been dominating the meta or over-used in other areas lately?

My thinking is if he's not a competitive issue now, why mess with him? If he is, of course now would be the time to fix him before regionals get into full swing.
Mando
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:10:36 AM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Regarding the Klat Assassin, I think of the possible errata discussed I think bumping his cost to 16 is the best idea. However, like I said, I haven't seen him much in competitive play lately. That's not to say he isn't a problem, he's just not been a problem where I've played lately. Has he been dominating the meta or over-used in other areas lately?

My thinking is if he's not a competitive issue now, why mess with him? If he is, of course now would be the time to fix him before regionals get into full swing.


I really don't think its as big of a problem as other pieces are like the Yun Ne'Shel priest and Poggles rapport. I'd say, just like how Daala's rapport was gotten rid of, we can get rid of Poggles Rapport and then we won't be seeing the 20+ activation seperatist squads with San hill that have 2 pt bombs that do 20 dmg. Like you said, I haven't seen it being used a ton in competitive squads lately and it hasn't been dominating the meta anywhere. The Klat is an NPE, but I wouldn't say its as overpowered as other pieces are that need to be looked at. I think the best course to deal with the klat assassin is to continue to make counters in future sets to cloaked. Preferably abilities that only effect non-uniques with cloaked, as Jedi have gotten enough grief and it'd feel like a waste to spend an entire turn and 2 force points to do something that can be cancels for not much effort.
pegolego
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:57:48 AM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Regarding the Klat Assassin, I think of the possible errata discussed I think bumping his cost to 16 is the best idea. However, like I said, I haven't seen him much in competitive play lately. That's not to say he isn't a problem, he's just not been a problem where I've played lately. Has he been dominating the meta or over-used in other areas lately?

My thinking is if he's not a competitive issue now, why mess with him? If he is, of course now would be the time to fix him before regionals get into full swing.


They've had a bit of success, but you are right, they aren't dominating very much that I know of. The problem comes in when they make everything else that is a similar piece in the same price range so utterly useless most of the time. They're just BETTER than everything else that would otherwise make more fun and competitive squads. An argument could be made for something like Kel Dors in a Super Stealth squad (still have the high attack, better HP and SD40, but less damage and cost a bit more), but generally speaking, the Klats seem to me to have a negative effect on the versatility of the meta.

Just my opinion Smile. If nothing happens to the Klat, despite that the counters that have come out are pretty situational, I don't think many would have a problem with it. I don't think the Klat is 'brokenly powerful'. I just think that if something (like a price raise) DID happen to make them a bit less appealing, it would be better for the competitive game. The Klat would likely still be something people would build with, but it would make other alternatives more REASONABLE to use in squads where before they were overlooked in favor of the all-powerful Klat lol.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2015 7:35:43 AM
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+1 to pegolego.

It's not that they dominate the meta, though they are strong. The issue is that they dominate squadbuilding. If you want a tertiary attacker in the 10-20 price range, you take a Klat, unless you have built your squad specifically to boost something else in that price range (in such a way that it doesn't also boost the Klat).
Mando
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2015 6:06:21 AM
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as to the original topic of this thread....Kubaz Spy in V10. Nuff said. ThumpUp
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