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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/23/2010
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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There's been some complaining recently over certain pieces being broken - I thought it might be fun to have a regular feature where we look at one of these pieces, and figure out squads that can beat them. Week 1 is Darth Vader of Lothal. Quote:Hit Points: 140
Defense: 22
Attack: 14
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Speed 8 (Can move up to 8 squares and attack, or 16 squares without attacking)
Battle Ready (After setup, Imperial characters in your squad (including this character( may move up to double speed immediately before the first activation)
Duel (When an enemy targets with a nonmelee attack outside of its turn, this character does not count as a legal target or the nearest enemy)
Force-Attuned Armor (Whenever this character takes damage, he reduces the damage by 10 with a save of 11)
Ranged Defense Expert +2 (Whenever this character is targeted by a nonadjacent enemy, he gets +2 to save rolls against that enemy's attack and special abilities that turn)
Shien Style (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11)
Force Powers
Force 3
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Surprise Attack (Force 2: Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can make an immediate attack)
Surprise Move (Force 1; Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to his Speed before any other character activates) I chose this UrbanJedi build as the squad to beat - the complaint was specifically about the Vader/100 point Sidious combo. Quote:--vader21 2016 WI Regional Winner--
100 Darth Sidious, Sith Mastermind
45 Darth Vader of Lothal
21 Marn Hierogryph
17 Nightsister Sith Witch
13 Elite Scout Trooper
8 Bothan Saboteur
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
Preferred Reinforcements:
(Marn Hierogryph) 4 Peace Brigade Thug
(Marn Hierogryph) 6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 11 activations) Can you build a squad that can beat or hold its own against this squad? It'd be great to see as many different factions represented as possible, and it'd be better to see well rounded squads that can beat other things rather than just hate squads.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Old Republic
I played this against Vader and Palpatine (with different support - I can't remember what) and I lost, but it was only because of Vima rolling horribly. I used Kerra to pull Vader next to a low object, then hit with Vima and then gave Vima the Senator shots. Can chew through big pieces quickly. Adjacent Atton is a big threat for Sidious as well.
--Another OR collection of medium threats--
37 Satele Shan
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
33 Vima Sunrider
29 Kerra Holt
14 Old Republic Senator
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
3 XT-6 Droid
(199pts. 10 activations)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/30/2009
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Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
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TINT's classic GOWK/Mace squad should be able to handle it. Vader's only melee defense is his armour.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Darth O wrote:TINT's classic GOWK/Mace squad should be able to handle it. Vader's only melee defense is his armour. They might need to tailor their support to get round Sidious though, right? His 150 hit points and Parry could make life pretty tough.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/30/2009
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Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
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True. Mira might be a good pick.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/10/2010
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Location: The Shadowlands of Kashyyyk
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What about a Caedus/Cognus sith team? Cognus, especially with Force Suppression could take on Palps, while Caedus can dance around/screw with Vader, plus Atton to pick off any target of opportunity or stragglers. Something like this:
C&C + Rand
54 Darth Caedus, Sith Lord
50 Darth Cognus
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
20 Darth Wyyrlok III
16 Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal
11 Darth Sidious Hologram
12 Sith Recruit x3
You can mess with the support all you want, i just add Evanzan because i like having at least one healer on my teams. Same with Holo Sid and Wyyyrlock, i love renewal. But the core of Caedus, Cognus and Atton would stay the same
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Honestly Sidious is nerfed by Marn, so as long as Marn is in your squad, you can focus specifically on Vader. A rework of that OR squad with marn replacing Atton would chew through Vader really quickly, and then focus on a Force-less Sidious.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Maybe too much of a hate squad, but I think Bane really has an opportunity to shine with the likes of Sid and VoL rolling around.
63 Darth Bane, Sith'ari
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
21 Marn Hierogryph
12 Krath Death Witch
11 Freedon Nadd, Dark Force Spirit
12 Sith Recruit x3
6 Mouse Droid x2
12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4
Just threw together the support, the core is Bane, Revan, Marn, and Nadd. Nadd Dark Masters Bane so he has more force to play with.
With Marn draining Sid, Bane and Revan will easily outmatch VoL and Sid - Revan can absorb some hits while Bane dishes out punishment.
Doesn't really have a good way to deal with swarms, though. Against Blast Bugs, you could potentially use Marn and his guys to keep the others busy while Revan speeds past to drop Bane in the back zone.
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Rank: Moderator
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, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
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Daala with barebones snowtroopers can hold their own against Sidious/Lothal. Pretty even. Vader can avoid a ton of damage but the troops put out a ton, too. If you don't spend anything on protection against scissors squads 20+ troops have a chance against Lothal.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Thematically beat him with this:
--Duel of Skywalkers--
45 Son of Skywalker
38 Chewie
35 Hera Syndulla
27 I-5YQ
19 Princess Leia, Rebel Commando
18 Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2)
12 See-Threepio (C-3PO)
8 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Spirit
(202pts. 8 activations)
Or for fun I would beat him with this:
--"Let's try missing for once." (How to counter ranged defensive abilities/powers)--
55 Sev'rance Tann
27 Lobot
96 Octuptarra Combat Droid x4
19 BX Commando Droid Spotter
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 20 Blizz
(200pts. 9 activations)
Can't use defensive abilities if I'm trying to miss and splash
Or just a melee beat down team like:
--Heroes of the Confederacy--
100 Dooku
42 General Grievous, Hero of Hypori
16 Poggle the Lesser
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
24 Geonosian Drone x12
(188pts. 17 activations)
Two melee masters, Grievois can strafe and have both party and makashi. And twelve drones for 240 auto damage.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/18/2008
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Location: Kokomo
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During playtesting Vader Lothal and 100 Sids I beat Jason with a pretty simple Bastila Squad.
Just Bastilla and some Pilots. I think a decent Bastila squad would be trouble for Vader/Sids.
This is not 100% perfected but I think there's something here...
64 Master Thon
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
21 Covenant Defender
18 Arca Jeth, Jedi Spirit
14 Old Republic Senator
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
3 XT-6 Droid
(200pts. 9 activations)
Bastila shuts off Emperors go first CE and boosts damage.
Arca Jeth catapults Thon with Covenant Defender.
Thon cancels force powers and Covenant Defender helps Thon beat up on Vader.
Jaq Jedi Mind Tricks and bases Emperor, cutting through his defenses.
Senator can give cannon shots on Emperor.
XT-6 lets you go 2 if you win initiative which could be devastating.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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I think one thing that needs to be said about the "broken" Vader of Lothal piece is that he is only "broken" because of 100pt Sid. He is still a very good piece without him, but he is devastating with him.
I like the Cognus Squad, but Sid generates soooo many FPs, that I think he could overcome that.
Bastila and Marn do create the most problems for this squad. Bastila not only shuts the go first down, but also prevents everyone from using the Force Battery, while Marn drains Sid.
The one piece of advice that I would offer and it is sometimes the most overlooked aspect of this squad. Vader is not the sole key to this squad. Yes he is devastating when paired with Sid, but there is a lot of direct damage in this squad as well. You cant just rush this squad. Mines and Lightning are pretty powerful as well.
The key to stopping this squad is to shut down or slow down Sid. Just remember though Sid, even without all of his FPs, can still do 60 on the move or 90 based and has Parry and Evade. and Vader can "surprise" you with the possibility of 160 damage if you aren't careful.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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This squad really gets hurt by lots of locked doors. Really one of the biggest nasty things Vader can do is sprint across the freaking board and twin attack before the first act, then BE the first act, double twin.
Locking a door between you and Vader before the end of the round is a must.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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--Les Femmes Fatales-- 33 Emperor Palpatine on Throne 32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) 31 Morrigan Corde 28 Mira of Nar Shaddaa 27 Lobot 16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 11 Admiral Ozzel 8 Mas Amedda 8 R7 Astromech Droid 3 Mouse Droid 3 Rodian Brute (200pts. 11 activations) Double override, legit inits, swap, rigged detonators, ysalamiri, and suppressive Fire all aid in smoking this team. The final hammer is using Pellaeon's CE to swap out Potty Palps for Mara Jade Hand of Judgement. She has Imperial Hunter and opportunist with Thrawn. 160 damage on Vader (minus armor saves) means if Vader lives he'll be nearly dead. Coin toss on init - Mara wins Vader is dead, Vader wins Mara is dead, but then shortly after Vader is dead. Worse case scenario is you're swapping Mara for Vader. Vader/Sid is dangerous, and the speed is shocking. I think without the Thrawn player making a major error, this squad beats it 9/10 times. I think this squad could do alright in the meta too. 
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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FlyingArrow wrote:Daala with barebones snowtroopers can hold their own against Sidious/Lothal. Pretty even. Vader can avoid a ton of damage but the troops put out a ton, too. If you don't spend anything on protection against scissors squads 20+ troops have a chance against Lothal. I tried Vader against 10hp Stormtroopers and it was terrible. But Snowtroopers are much better as they can survive a failed Shien save.
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