For those of you that missed a discussion, Nickname posed a question on wizards regarding using an optional restricted maplist for top level tournaments (essentially regionals, GenCon championship, etc.) <Link to that thread: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/21840673/If_there_were_a_restricted_map_list,_what_maps_would_you_include?num=10&pg=1

The "sure bets" on his maplist consisted of the following maps:

Chancellor's Starship (Throne Room)
Ravaged Base (Commander's Office)
Cloud City (Bespin)
Muunilinst Grand Plaza
Jedi Temple (Hall of Judgment)
Rancor Pit

I really liked this list the more I thought about it. I have played several games since this discussion specifically on these maps and once thing has become clear to me - Games move much faster on these maps.

I believe there are many factors to why slow play is prevalent. Maps are a huge contributing factor IMO.

Huge power output non-melee pieces with mobility (double-twin greater mobile, etc) and movement breakers (Swaps, high speed, etc) often make any minor placement mistake you might make fatal.

Couple this with out-activating an opponent (I'm looking at you three, San Hill, Ozzel and Dodanna), and you can always safely get a piece into gambit at the end of the round for an early point lead.

Using maps where there are large unprotected areas (Taris, New Muunulinst, Teth Monastery) - especially in gambit, often forces an opponent with this decision: Lose by a minor amount of points, or make a suicidal run across un-protective terrain to desperately (and usually unsuccessfully) attempt to win the game.

Here is how many GenCon matches went for many people:
-Bring a squad with mobile, non-melee high power output.
-Have a way to out-activate an opponent.
-Bring a map that strongly favors shooters.
-gain a lead early through sniping figs or out-activating and safely placing a fig in gambit at the end of the round.
-sit back and watch your opponent scratch their head and try and figure out what they heck they can do.
-winner is decided by only a few points scored(ie 10-5), or a slaughter if they make the suicidal run.

I think the new rules will combat some of this, but I think that losing bad maps will have a bigger effect.

If you look at the "Nickname 6" - all of these maps have relatively safe paths of advancement to gambit. They also have walls in gambit - so an opponent can just sit back in their starting area and shoot any square in gambit. This is a good thing - no both teams can and must advance.

Most of the games I've played and observed recently on these maps it goes something more like this:
-Bring any competitive squad you want
-Bring a "Nickname 6" map
-Both teams advance carefully but quickly to gambit or near gambit.
-a great battle takes place - with no easy way to predict it. Excellent play usually prevails.
-winner is decided by who emerges victorious by killing the entire other team.

Everyone of my games I've played on the "Nickname 6" (since this discussion started) has finished in 30-40 minutes. This was WITHOUT playing with the new DCI changes that are upcoming. Heck I've only seen one single match go to time since then on one of those maps, and it was a mostly melee anomaly between Jake and Deri this weekend.

Long story short - I really hope we do adopt the "Nickname 6" for high level competitions. Everyone seems focused on how to help stop slow play - and I think this would be a huge contributor.

1. Wotc forums links are a real pain now.
2. While I would personally hate to see the maps go down to only 6, even if for high competition, I agree with the need for it. While I'm sure it will help speed games for some, I am not really sure that it will be as big as you think. It depends on the player, really. My main experiences with slow players show that they will be overly cautious no matter what. But your experiences may differ, as I highly doubt I will be at any top tables this season.

Eh, I don't like Ravaged Base for the reason that both people can sit safely in Gambit. I'd prefer maps like Ilum, where Gambit itself is a giant free-for-all, but it's hard to shoot things in the gambit area from outside gambit. (Without leaving something exposed). Haven't played enough on Ilum to be sure that is always the case, but maps with that design would essentially force and speed up combat. Games on Ravaged Base usually take insanely long. (New rules might help that, not sure). It ends up turning into the first one to say "Eff it, I'll take my chances and charge in".

You still can't sit in Gambit on Ilum against Mobile Attackers though. There are too many places to hide outside of gambit and just pummel anything that steps foot in there.

Almost ALL games that I play get to a point where one opponent or the other must be forced to say "Eff it" and just charge in. I really don't think the differences in maps change that fact very much. But maps like these 6 above make that problem less unbalanced in favor of the mobile shooters. At least on maps like Ravaged base, you can get within 6-8 squares of the enemy, and still be completely out of LOS, whereas you will struggle to get closer than 12 squares on Ilum or other wide-open maps.

I'm against a shortened map list. Why? Because I have over 30 maps and our LGS plays only DCI. In the past I have seen people trying to get more maps such as Mapmaker's and Jedicart's legalized. Instead of moving forward we are moving backwards.

I also do not like this because it puts newer players having to go out and find legal maps to play. This can discourage them into quitting. I think having a small amount of maps will make weekly game play at our LGS start to become mundane with people playing the same squads on the same maps.

I truly think that any map list should be restricted to regional and national play and let the LGS on normal DCI competitive days be allowed to have more choice. I'm also in favor of having a different set of floor rules for the national scene as well. Adopting rules that are geared toward competitive play will restrict play at LGS as well. As it is our LGS has alot of children. I fear as the rules become more strict and restrictive on play we will start to lose interest from players that prefer a less competitive atmosphere.

Oops that's right. I actually did read it awhile back and made that same comment there if I remember correctly. I wish the same idea would be adopted on the rules as well to loosen up normal DCI play at the LGS.

Well we really cant talk about all of this until we know regionals and gencon is 150 or 200. Since the map list would change if it was 200. I still think the main maps would be theses maps even if train or starship would be legal. So I think we have to talk about starship Death star and train just in case regionals or gencon is 200.Starship and train can be broken but the same is about Rancor in away. I dont know what is going on about that anymore all i know is it was being talked about.

The problem about taking death star off the list is that it is easy to get. So we might just have to keep train and Death star because of that. I know Tim you think everyone should have all maps if they are going to play at regionals or gencon but that is not going to happen. You have to look at the big picture even if its not what you like. We have what around 80 at Gencon the last few years. So I am guessing but going with just six maps it limits what about I say 20% can play on. I would go about 25-35% at the Regionals.All I am saying it we should go to 8 maps that way we have more maps and more the maps is better in this case to me. I just think 6 is too little and 10 is way too many.

I think Jedi Temple should go if we take off Train or Starship. Jedi Temple can be just as broken if you know the los and how to play on it.

Train really has to stay because its an ok map and with lock outs not working/new Gambit it should be an ok map.

Death star you cant really camp out anymore with the new rules so by moving up gives the map shooting lanes. It might be too open to some but with the new rues in place I dont see why it should go.

Starship I dont know where to start here. It is a tricky map and if you dont know what you are doing. There will be trouble and the size is odd. I say keep it because it can be broken but it is a great swap map vs all the dumb evade/ mobile shooters. All my games on that map dont go to time. If you have that map you have a way to get to the wall. If you have speed 8 mobile guys or flight you should be able to get to all but 3-4 of the gambit squares. Might even be 1-3 I forget. Thats how many times I have played on that map in the last year.

So I think we should go to 8 maps. The six,Train and Death star/Starship. I am thinking Starship because it will be the one that should be less played on.

Mickey, you really should consider doing some non-DCI stuff at your LGS. You can still utilize the basic DCI rules for squad building and all that, but allow some more diversity with the maps. There's really no benefit to doing DCI every single week anymore, since we don't do Promos or WOTC-recognized release events anymore either. Ask your T.O. about doing maybe 2 DCI events per month, and then 2 non-DCI.

Of course, the other option is to just do what many LGS are doing anyways. Continue to report to DCI, but turn a blind eye to anyone who wants to use a Jedicartographer/Mapmaker map from time to time.

Yes, having a larger map list could hurt local play to some degree. But having a wide-open one can hurt it just as much. You can turn away players just as easily by having one jerk who insists on playing on Taris every single week and abusing the snot out of the map. If you don't have anybody like that in your store, than that's awesome, and I can understand why this would rub the wrong way then.

I too would rather see this sort of thing restricted to only Regional/National level events. I would also like to see the custom maps become legal, but so far, we have all hit a brick wall with trying to convince WOTC to allow that. It's not that people aren't trying. But in the mean time, we're trying to think of ways to improve the high-end competitive side of the game.