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Roque Saber wrote:Meaning that you are hoping to roll the magic numbers. Alter requires you to get close to an enemy, which he won't last too long against. He will if he has a 200HP bodyguard. 
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What I did for fun one time was run him, Mon Mothma, Kazdan, and the Rodian Vigo, so I was getting tons of reserves. Another time I ran him and Kreia for some Betrayal fun.
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But when all those Reserves are handing your opponent easy victory points...
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out at my league we usualy play las man standing and dont worry about points.
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countrydude82487 wrote:out at my league we usualy play las man standing and dont worry about points. There are more ways to play this game than just DCI.
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Ferus Olin 
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FlyingArrow wrote:countrydude82487 wrote:out at my league we usualy play las man standing and dont worry about points. There are more ways to play this game than just DCI. True, but standard rules will score points for defeating Reserves. If you plop more pieces on the board like that, they will be eligible for scoring. As for gaining a BG through palps' CE, it's hardly efficient (as you admitted). As for his betrayal, I can either ignore him or attack him with my cheap fodder. For what he does, he is way too expensive. He should cost somewhere in the mid 20s, I think. It's the fact that he can't do any damage. He's basically dead weight. At least someone like Mon Mothma has a semi-decent CE.
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Tirade wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:countrydude82487 wrote:out at my league we usualy play las man standing and dont worry about points. There are more ways to play this game than just DCI. True, but standard rules will score points for defeating Reserves. If you plop more pieces on the board like that, they will be eligible for scoring. As for gaining a BG through palps' CE, it's hardly efficient (as you admitted). As for his betrayal, I can either ignore him or attack him with my cheap fodder. For what he does, he is way too expensive. He should cost somewhere in the mid 20s, I think. It's the fact that he can't do any damage. He's basically dead weight. At least someone like Mon Mothma has a semi-decent CE. I'll start a new thread about different ways to play the game. There are many ways to choose a "best bodyguard". It depends on how many HP you need, whether the BG needs to be an offensive force as well, and the flexibility of the bodyguard (in terms of faction availability as well as who he can protect). I just offered another way to look at it (most HP per point-cost) and pointed out the curious fact that you can get 200HP worth of protection from Agen Kolar for 29 points under the right circumstances. That's all.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Tirade wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:countrydude82487 wrote:out at my league we usualy play las man standing and dont worry about points. There are more ways to play this game than just DCI. True, but standard rules will score points for defeating Reserves. If you plop more pieces on the board like that, they will be eligible for scoring. As for gaining a BG through palps' CE, it's hardly efficient (as you admitted). As for his betrayal, I can either ignore him or attack him with my cheap fodder. For what he does, he is way too expensive. He should cost somewhere in the mid 20s, I think. It's the fact that he can't do any damage. He's basically dead weight. At least someone like Mon Mothma has a semi-decent CE. I'll start a new thread about different ways to play the game. There are many ways to choose a "best bodyguard". It depends on how many HP you need, whether the BG needs to be an offensive force as well, and the flexibility of the bodyguard (in terms of faction availability as well as who he can protect). I just offered another way to look at it (most HP per point-cost) and pointed out the curious fact that you can get 200HP worth of protection from Agen Kolar for 29 points under the right circumstances. That's all. I could see some fun in a scenario (ie - protect the Chancellor), but that's about it. Any real game means Agen is the most expensive waste of a BG. Plus he might keel over before he gets the chance to use Recovery 20 four times.
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looking at everything on a generator i have he might be a little over costed by about 5. But other than that he is for fun for me.
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Tirade wrote:
I could see some fun in a scenario (ie - protect the Chancellor), but that's about it. Any real game means Agen is the most expensive waste of a BG. Plus he might keel over before he gets the chance to use Recovery 20 four times.
I offered one definition of "best bodyguard" (not necessarily the best definition) and the result according to that definition is Agen Kolar. My definition didn't leave any room for subjective judgment so there's not much use in arguing about it (unless I overlooked someone who can get more than 6.9 HP per point-cost). Feel free to define 'best bodyguard' for yourself and argue for the best piece according to that definition. There are lots of possible definitions. Incidentally, I don't think "real game" and "DCI" are equivalent terms. If both sides are genuinely trying to win according to the rules of that particular game (and not, for example, taking sub-optimal moves to try stuff out or to take it easy on a newbie), I'd call it a real game.
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countrydude82487 wrote:carnorjax1 wrote:Palps has betrayal, alter, renewal, and plentya reserves. He's not overcost at all in my opinion i agree he isnt overcosted. now what i think is a good build with him in a 200 is qui gon Jedi master, lobot, kazdan, and some other force users , and a shield bearer. Not only will he survive a little longer each round, but for at least 5 rounds you get 4 rolls for initiative( using recon and anticipation) with at least on the first roll a 30% chance of getting reserves without even getting recon. it may not be competitive but it is fun, and thats what matters. Heh, younglings? 
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--Call in the Reserves--
55 Kazdan Paratus
37 Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
35 Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
23 Mon Mothma
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
5 Youngling
6 Mouse Droid x2
Preferred Reserves:
(Kazdan Paratus) 27 HK-50 Assassin Droid
(Kazdan Paratus) 3 Mouse Droid
(Lobot, CLO) 30 Xizor
(Mon Mothma) 18 Gungan Shieldbearer
(SC Palpatine) 29 Agen Kolar
(SC Palpatine) 20 Bith Black Sun Vigo
(Xizor) 16 Abyssin Black Sun Thug x2
(Xizor) 4 Gran Raider
(200pts. 9 activations)
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FlyingArrow wrote:--Call in the Reserves--
55 Kazdan Paratus
37 Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
35 Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
23 Mon Mothma
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
5 Youngling
6 Mouse Droid x2
Preferred Reserves:
(Kazdan Paratus) 27 HK-50 Assassin Droid
(Kazdan Paratus) 3 Mouse Droid
(Lobot, CLO) 30 Xizor
(Mon Mothma) 18 Gungan Shieldbearer
(SC Palpatine) 29 Agen Kolar
(SC Palpatine) 20 Bith Black Sun Vigo
(Xizor) 16 Abyssin Black Sun Thug x2
(Xizor) 4 Gran Raider
(200pts. 9 activations) Wow, what a cascade of Reserves. Talk about banking on a few numbers. I'd actually take out Qui-Gon, JM and Ki-Adi-Mundi. Probably replace Qui-Gon with Zuckuss (I know they both have Anticipation, but I think your squad needs Shooter Support). I'm also of the opinion that two Anticipation characters is overkill (especially when they both have at least 90 HPs). To help keep Lobot alive, I'd throw in an ARF. The Stealth should keep him alive. The final 14 points (thanks to Palpatine's Order 66 Rapport) could be spent on another Youngling and 3 Uggies. You are going to need more door support other than Lobot. As for your preferred Reserves, I'd strongly consider a T1 Bulk Loader Drive for Kazdan. The HPs alone make the T1 a pain to take down. I'm not sure I would waste time bringing in Xizor for Lobot's Reserves. You are already relying way too much on dice rolls. And if you are so intent on bringing in a Jedi BG, why not go with the Dark Woman for Palpatine's Republic Reserves? She has more HPs per cost and she can actually Light Tutor someone. I think a Reserves squad could be fun, but you need to throw in some kick to your squad. Your initial squad (without rolling reserves) is just a punching bag. You need to cut down on the number of Reserves characters you have. I'd probably think about cutting out Mon Mothma. Her CE is fantastic, but unless you roll Reserves, it's generally wasted.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Tirade wrote:
I could see some fun in a scenario (ie - protect the Chancellor), but that's about it. Any real game means Agen is the most expensive waste of a BG. Plus he might keel over before he gets the chance to use Recovery 20 four times.
I offered one definition of "best bodyguard" (not necessarily the best definition) and the result according to that definition is Agen Kolar. My definition didn't leave any room for subjective judgment so there's not much use in arguing about it (unless I overlooked someone who can get more than 6.9 HP per point-cost). Feel free to define 'best bodyguard' for yourself and argue for the best piece according to that definition. There are lots of possible definitions. Incidentally, I don't think "real game" and "DCI" are equivalent terms. If both sides are genuinely trying to win according to the rules of that particular game (and not, for example, taking sub-optimal moves to try stuff out or to take it easy on a newbie), I'd call it a real game. You did overlook one character. Barriss Offee with renewal and force heal 20 can have what you consider infinite HP making here the best BG by your definition. I also think that a game that doesn't follow the standard rules or DCI rules, shouldn't be used to judge a character. I can't debate what a "real" game is, but I know that playing a game by different rules changes a character's usefulness greatly.
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Jediabiwan wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Tirade wrote:
I could see some fun in a scenario (ie - protect the Chancellor), but that's about it. Any real game means Agen is the most expensive waste of a BG. Plus he might keel over before he gets the chance to use Recovery 20 four times.
I offered one definition of "best bodyguard" (not necessarily the best definition) and the result according to that definition is Agen Kolar. My definition didn't leave any room for subjective judgment so there's not much use in arguing about it (unless I overlooked someone who can get more than 6.9 HP per point-cost). Feel free to define 'best bodyguard' for yourself and argue for the best piece according to that definition. There are lots of possible definitions. Incidentally, I don't think "real game" and "DCI" are equivalent terms. If both sides are genuinely trying to win according to the rules of that particular game (and not, for example, taking sub-optimal moves to try stuff out or to take it easy on a newbie), I'd call it a real game. You did overlook one character. Barriss Offee with renewal and force heal 20 can have what you consider infinite HP making here the best BG by your definition. I also think that a game that doesn't follow the standard rules or DCI rules, shouldn't be used to judge a character. I can't debate what a "real" game is, but I know that playing a game by different rules changes a character's usefulness greatly. Indeed he did. I'm assuming he doesn't think she can Heal enough to reach his magic 200 number. And yeah, playing a game different from the core rules does affect the usefulness of a piece. That's why you have to be careful with scenarios and custom play.
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Jediabiwan wrote:
You did overlook one character. Barriss Offee with renewal and force heal 20 can have what you consider infinite HP making here the best BG by your definition.
Good catch - thanks.
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Tirade wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:--Call in the Reserves--
55 Kazdan Paratus
37 Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
35 Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
23 Mon Mothma
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
5 Youngling
6 Mouse Droid x2
Preferred Reserves:
(Kazdan Paratus) 27 HK-50 Assassin Droid
(Kazdan Paratus) 3 Mouse Droid
(Lobot, CLO) 30 Xizor
(Mon Mothma) 18 Gungan Shieldbearer
(SC Palpatine) 29 Agen Kolar
(SC Palpatine) 20 Bith Black Sun Vigo
(Xizor) 16 Abyssin Black Sun Thug x2
(Xizor) 4 Gran Raider
(200pts. 9 activations) Wow, what a cascade of Reserves. Talk about banking on a few numbers. I'd actually take out Qui-Gon, JM and Ki-Adi-Mundi. Probably replace Qui-Gon with Zuckuss (I know they both have Anticipation, but I think your squad needs Shooter Support). I'm also of the opinion that two Anticipation characters is overkill (especially when they both have at least 90 HPs). To help keep Lobot alive, I'd throw in an ARF. The Stealth should keep him alive. The final 14 points (thanks to Palpatine's Order 66 Rapport) could be spent on another Youngling and 3 Uggies. You are going to need more door support other than Lobot. As for your preferred Reserves, I'd strongly consider a T1 Bulk Loader Drive for Kazdan. The HPs alone make the T1 a pain to take down. I'm not sure I would waste time bringing in Xizor for Lobot's Reserves. You are already relying way too much on dice rolls. And if you are so intent on bringing in a Jedi BG, why not go with the Dark Woman for Palpatine's Republic Reserves? She has more HPs per cost and she can actually Light Tutor someone. I think a Reserves squad could be fun, but you need to throw in some kick to your squad. Your initial squad (without rolling reserves) is just a punching bag. You need to cut down on the number of Reserves characters you have. I'd probably think about cutting out Mon Mothma. Her CE is fantastic, but unless you roll Reserves, it's generally wasted. New thread for this discussion started in squad discussion.
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FlyingArrow wrote:--Call in the Reserves--
55 Kazdan Paratus
37 Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
35 Qui-Gon Jinn, Jedi Master
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
23 Mon Mothma
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
5 Youngling
6 Mouse Droid x2
Preferred Reserves:
(Kazdan Paratus) 27 HK-50 Assassin Droid
(Kazdan Paratus) 3 Mouse Droid
(Lobot, CLO) 30 Xizor
(Mon Mothma) 18 Gungan Shieldbearer
(SC Palpatine) 29 Agen Kolar
(SC Palpatine) 20 Bith Black Sun Vigo
(Xizor) 16 Abyssin Black Sun Thug x2
(Xizor) 4 Gran Raider
(200pts. 9 activations) i use a squad very similar to this. the main difference is i use a gungan shield bearer in the sase and a rodian black sun vigo, and i would take out mon mothma and ki adi mundi. with the advantage of if quigon dies you get his force spirit also . with palpatines you could also bring in Barriss offee that way you can get some healing in there with bodyguard too. THe shield bearer will allow you to live a little onger and the fact that they cant use accurate shot will help too. granted its biggest flaws are relying on numbers and an AOE would decimate it, but its still fun.
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