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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 190
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Mickey wrote:Well I mentioned this when this idea was discussed, does this mean both players are going to be called slow players? Snipped the rest, but I'm responding to the whole post. You have some reasonable concerns. As always, the local judge will be the final arbiter. I expect that the SWMRAC group will put up some guidelines for judges about possible exceptions. Also, these changes don't go into effect on the 26th like the rest of the rules, as the DCI Reporter software needs to be updated to support entry of 2 points first. So you're going to have some "practice" time to start tracking everyone's play speed and work on cooperating (as opponents!) on keeping the pace up and being sportsmanlike in not monopolizing the clock during tough decisions. And you'll be able to discuss with your local judge his plans for enforcing it so you know what to expect going in. I think you'll find the game becomes quite fun and games that move along are a refreshing change to the stagnant 4-5 round games that are the norm in many places.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 1,122
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I rarely play DCI, so I won't be losing any sleep over the floor rule updates, but it's great to see that the multitude of "This is how we should un-ban GOWK!" threads that often devolved into flame wars should be gone.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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Definitly good to hear, bring back the huges and Obi, a very good day indeed.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/3/2008 Posts: 584 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Eroschilles wrote:The only potential problem I see with the new point system for wins is that not everyone plays the full 60 minute games recommended in the floor rules for DCI tournaments.
My normal venue only plays 35ish min matches. So, we usually go to time, even while rushing. But sometimes people will get a favourable matchup with a counter squad to their opponents' squad and will win quickly. Even if they do this twice, but lose once, they will still come in second even if the 1st place winner went to time three times. They would both have 6 points (1st - 3TWs = 6pts; 2nd - 2FWs + 1 L = 6pts), but 1st will win out on the second tiebreaker: 2. Match Win Percentage – The player with the highest match winning percentage.
So, I don't seeing it affecting LGS' all that much as there are fewer participants than the larger events. Where it is going to matter is at the larger events where there are many players and people who are closer in win percentage may have point discrepencies based on whether they went to time or not. This isn't meant to penalize anyone, but to encourage games to speed up and finish to conclusion, so people can try to get better standings. If a personal is a playing at normal speed and then notices that their opponent is playing slowly intentionally to avoid being defeat (not just making thoughtful moves), then the player needs to get the judges attention as soon as possible.
Overall, I approve of the updates, I just need to get more maps because I don't think I have any on the Restricted list. And I want BF, BH back on for DD (w/o the big D of course) so I can run my Kol with him. But I guess I'll just have to wait for July for that. Quoted for gobs and gobs of truth. For anyone worried about the new point system at their LGS...re-read this post several times until you fully understand every bit of it, and hopefully it should alleviate your worries. Honestly, as several others have said, it will have very little affect on local LGS. In a 3 round tourney, if the undefeated player goes to time every game, he will still end up in 1st place. Now, in a 4 round tourney, if the undefeated player goes to time every game, he'll only end up with 8 points. So, a 3-1 player who finished all 3 games could have 9 points and come out on top. But you know what...don't view it as a negative. View that as the encouragement that it's supposed to be to the undefeated player to learn to play the game faster. Trust me, it can be done. One of the guys at our venue used to struggle to even get half-way done with his games. Now, he finishes probably 75% or more, or they are at least very close to fully decided. The only concern I have about the new points system is how it's going to be handled at GenCon. How will the people entering the scores know what to put in? Will the slips at each player's position have a spot to write down either a 3 or a 2? And what sort of guidelines need to be in place for people who have games that aren't quite finished, but are quite obviously fully in favor of one player? Just call a judge over? Will there be anything done in order to make sure that people just don't arbitrarily put down 3 points, when they really should've had only 2? I think I know the answers to some of those things, but I'm just trying to make sure everyone involved is starting to think about them already. It will require an added measure of involvement from the judges I think.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/2/2008 Posts: 538 Location: GC, Missouri
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there is to be a box that can be checked for complete game.
If that is checked in the software it rewards with a 3 point victory if not 2.
A judge deciding a concession is worth 3 points then would check the complete game box on the slip and initial it along with the players signatures.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/3/2008 Posts: 584 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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OK, so without the judge's involvement, it would just be a matter of the players being truthful. That's fine. I see some room for fudging of results there, but I understand. It will simply be a matter of convincing players that when a loser insists on the game being recorded as only worth 2 points, that the winner needs to not get upset, they need to understand that the losing player is just enforcing the rules. I could certainly see a few people at GenCon getting bent out of shape if their opponent refuses to sign-off on the 'full win'. Judges will have their work cut out for them, I'm afraid. Just train them well before hand. :)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2009 Posts: 177
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These changes are very, very, very good for the game.
Incentive to play quickly and aggressively -- good! Moderately nerfing some of the most frustrating squads in the game to play against by making them come to you on maps with actual cover -- good!
I am more ambiguous on GOWK coming back, but honestly anything that boosts melee over shooting is A-OK in my book. It turns out that in the absence of GOWK squads, which tended to play very rough and very in-you-face, the game was dominated by high-activation finesse squads that, IMHO, are less fun to play against than anything. Anything that hurts slow cannon is a plus for the game at this point.
EDIT: In reference to what Lobo was talking about one post above (players getting angry about "I earned three points you're a dirty cheater trying to stick me with two!"), let's face it. We are a small community in the grand scheme of things. We mostly know or at least know of each other in the regions where we all play. If we cannot be fair and courteous to each other, that just shows poorly on us. Surely we're better than the Magic players who tried to gank all our stuff during a fire drill!
I am saying this as someone who, at my last tournament, finished 4/5 games in less than half an hour. Some were wins, some weren't, but an hour is more than enough for 200 points, even if you like staying on your half of the board more than I do.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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greentime wrote: EDIT: In reference to what Lobo was talking about one post above (players getting angry about "I earned three points you're a dirty cheater trying to stick me with two!"), let's face it. We are a small community in the grand scheme of things. We mostly know or at least know of each other in the regions where we all play. If we cannot be fair and courteous to each other, that just shows poorly on us. Surely we're better than the Magic players who tried to gank all our stuff during a fire drill!
Excellent post. There will be issues, there were with the old rules. But just as with the old rules, it is up to us as a community to keep the game great. We all know that, even if it seems like we forget sometimes :) I appreciate the perspective on the time issue, even though I did not quote it. I too believe that will be the scenario at almost all local stores. It has been in my experience at least.
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Rank: Mistryl Shadow Guard Groups: Member
Joined: 5/6/2008 Posts: 24 Location: Czech Republic
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Can you please asure me that maps are now united for different point levels (as I can´t find any chart with this type of restriction)? I hope I do understand it right
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 871 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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From the sound of it, any map can be used at any level. I may be wrong, but that's how I interpret the map chart. Doesn't mention a point level anywhere at all...
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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LukeCZ wrote:Can you please asure me that maps are now united for different point levels (as I can´t find any chart with this type of restriction)? I hope I do understand it right Correct. The map lists are no longer tied to point limits at all. Instead TO's now have the freedom to pick whichever list best fits their local crew and tournament.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 190
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Additionally, the concept of a particular point level being "huge friendly" in regards to maps is gone. To counter this new disadvantage huges lose Rigid in all formats rather than just in Limited. There's some mixed blessings here, but given how often huges are played in the former "huge friendly" format, it doesn't seem like much of a loss for the greater flexibility the new system offers.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/13/2009 Posts: 143 Location: Southern Illinois
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When do the new rules come into effect???
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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swsf17 wrote:When do the new rules come into effect??? Jan 26.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 153
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billiv15 wrote:LukeCZ wrote:Can you please asure me that maps are now united for different point levels (as I can´t find any chart with this type of restriction)? I hope I do understand it right Correct. The map lists are no longer tied to point limits at all. Instead TO's now have the freedom to pick whichever list best fits their local crew and tournament. With Rigid effectively removed as an ability, there is no reason to worry about 200 being the "huge-friendly" format.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/24/2010 Posts: 140
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With the map change, will that allow my LGS to play cloud City at 200? Or am I reading this all wrong?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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The map change is essentially this: you pick point level and map choice for the tournament. There are 3 options for maps: Open, Standard, and Restricted. The floor rules has all the maps legal for each of those selections.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/3/2008 Posts: 584 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Blizzard Scout 1 wrote:With the map change, will that allow my LGS to play cloud City at 200? Or am I reading this all wrong? Yes, if your LGS selects the 'Standard' format for maps, then you will be able to play things like Cloud City, Death Star, and Muunilist Grand Plaza at 200 points, which we could not do before.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/20/2009 Posts: 175
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im happy with the new gowk ruling now i can run my han cannon counter again
gowk+luminara jm+baris ofee jk
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