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Twin Attack: must roll second attack? Options
juice man
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:25:36 AM
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We were playing the other weekend and a couple guys were rolling thier twins, even though the target was defeated, beyond any possible help, and said that was standard thing to do, claiming one must roll that second. You might roll a 20 that would be wasted on a dead guy instead of doing damage to a new target.

Is this true in competition?
pegolego
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:27:30 AM
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I've never really thought about it, so I'm interested to see the answer too. On Vassal, I know most people just go roll, roll very quickly and then determine if at least one hit and defeated the target.
Prestige Worldwide
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:29:18 AM
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My guess is, the only time you are forced to complete the twin attack is either when you are shooting a piece that has not died, or you are shooting yourself via JarJar.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:34:15 AM
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As per the Resolving Effects section of the FAQ, the enemy is removed from the board before you can start the Twin Attack. So, no Twin Attack.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:36:34 AM
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Also, one roll doesn't change the probability of the next roll. However, if you did roll a 'null attack' of that sort you could trigger Internal Strife or something like that, so it's not a good idea to roll it when you're not supposed to.
juice man
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:05:06 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
As per the Resolving Effects section of the FAQ, the enemy is removed from the board before you can start the Twin Attack. So, no Twin Attack.
See what happens when your brain is asleep? D'oh. I most times check the rules/glossary, but forget Resolving Effects. Thanks guys.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:10:19 AM
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A related question... it appears that the wording of Twin Attack indicates that the Twin is in fact mandatory if the target is still alive. Is that correct? I've never been in a situation where I didn't want to take the Twin Attack. I would have thought it was optional, but it appears that maybe it isn't.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:29:12 AM
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Twin Attack is not optional.
Chargers
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2013 1:12:08 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
A related question... it appears that the wording of Twin Attack indicates that the Twin is in fact mandatory if the target is still alive. Is that correct? I've never been in a situation where I didn't want to take the Twin Attack. I would have thought it was optional, but it appears that maybe it isn't.


Sithborg wrote:
Twin Attack is not optional.


That's right ... think about that when you're hitting that Self Destruct target who is standing next to one of your allies.
gholli69
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:48:58 PM
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a related question a twin att. counts as a single att. correct? because I asked previously if a character with twin would still be able to use Master Yodas CE that grant an extra att. to an ally that had only made a single att. on its' turn and was told that they wouldn't benefit from that CE. I was wondering why since as I understand it a twin counts as a single att.
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:32:12 PM
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gholli69 wrote:
a related question a twin att. counts as a single att. correct? because I asked previously if a character with twin would still be able to use Master Yodas CE that grant an extra att. to an ally that had only made a single att. on its' turn and was told that they wouldn't benefit from that CE. I was wondering why since as I understand it a twin counts as a single att.


It's an extra attack against a single target; still 2 attacks.

To illustrate, a force user with Double Attack can choose to move/attack or attack/move, giving up the use of Double. Since it only attacked once on its turn, it would then qualify for Master Yoda's CE.

With Twin Attack that isn't possible as you always attack the target twice, unless the first attack of the twin defeats the target. If that happens and another target is available for the attack granted by Master Yoda, the CE can be used.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:53:35 AM
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swinefeld wrote:

To illustrate, a force user with Double Attack can choose to move/attack or attack/move, giving up the use of Double. Since it only attacked once on its turn, it would then qualify for Master Yoda's CE.

With Twin Attack that isn't possible as you always attack the target twice, unless the first attack of the twin defeats the target. If that happens and another target is available for the attack granted by Master Yoda, the CE can be used.


Or if the attack is canceled before it happens. By Pheromones, for example.
juice man
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:13:27 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
swinefeld wrote:

To illustrate, a force user with Double Attack can choose to move/attack or attack/move, giving up the use of Double. Since it only attacked once on its turn, it would then qualify for Master Yoda's CE.

With Twin Attack that isn't possible as you always attack the target twice, unless the first attack of the twin defeats the target. If that happens and another target is available for the attack granted by Master Yoda, the CE can be used.


Or if the attack is canceled before it happens. By Pheromones, for example.
Except you can't attack a different target with Master Yoda's CE.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:20:06 AM
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juice man wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
swinefeld wrote:

To illustrate, a force user with Double Attack can choose to move/attack or attack/move, giving up the use of Double. Since it only attacked once on its turn, it would then qualify for Master Yoda's CE.

With Twin Attack that isn't possible as you always attack the target twice, unless the first attack of the twin defeats the target. If that happens and another target is available for the attack granted by Master Yoda, the CE can be used.


Or if the attack is canceled before it happens. By Pheromones, for example.
Except you can't attack a different target with Master Yoda's CE.


Correct.

Suppose on your turn you attack Xizor and you have Twin Attack, and on the first attack you pass Pheromones and make the normal attack. Then the Twin Attack kicks in. You have to roll Pheromones again. If you fail the second one, then you never make the second attack. In that case, Yoda's CE could kick in and you would get to try attacking Xizor again. (It would have to be Xizor. You couldn't choose another target.) You'd attack twice, actually, since Twin Attack would trigger on the granted attack as well. In this case, it could be a good thing to fail the Pheromones save.



==
Edit: And what I just said there is incorrect.
juice man
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:36:10 AM
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Actually, with Pheromones, the attack is still considered to have been made. So you've still attacked twice.

Edit: Anyone for a good old-fasioned game of Risk?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:44:22 AM
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juice man wrote:
Actually, with Pheromones, the attack is still considered to have been made. So you've still attacked twice.


Good call.

Pheromones glossary entry:
This special ability cancels an attack made by a living enemy within 6 squares against this creature. The attacker can resist this effect with a save of 11. Roll the save immediately after the attack is declared but before making the attack roll. That attack is still considered to have been made this turn, and the affected character still spends Force points (if any) used in that attack.
crazybirdman
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:50:36 AM
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I thought I read that if people with Djem so and twin fought, they could end up in an infinite loop (if they made their saves of course), even if they we're both technically dead?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM
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crazybirdman wrote:
I thought I read that if people with Djem so and twin fought, they could end up in an infinite loop (if they made their saves of course), even if they we're both technically dead?


Yes. It doesn't even require Twin, actually, but Twin makes it more likely to happen since there are more chances to hit and chances to make Djem So saves. It can happen because in that case each attack is suspended while another attack begins. Damage is applied after resolving the newly created attack.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10805

A has 40hp. B has 30hp.
1. A hits B for 20.
2. B Djem So hits A for 20.
3. A Djem So hits B for 40.
4. B Djem So hits A for 20.
5. A Djem So hits B for 20. (pointless)
5b. Attack #5 is completed and 20 damage is applied to B.
4b. Attack #4 is completed and 20 damage is applied to A.
3b. Attack #3 is completed and 40 damage is applied to B. It is enough to kill B.
2b. Attack #2 is completed and 20 damage is applied to A. It is enough to kill A.
1b. Attack #1 is completed, but B has already been removed from the grid.

On the 5th attack, A attacks B when everybody already knows that both pieces are going to die. The damage racked up in the first 4 attacks will kill both of them. That's why attack #5 is pointless, unless maybe he's hoping for a Flurry attack on an adjacent enemy or something like that.
atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:59:27 AM
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@crazybirdman- if that is true that isn't practical and should be errated... If a character is dead it is dead, with the exceptions of death shots, self destruct, force spirits and the like a character should seas the moment it is dead.
countrydude82487
Posted: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:59:56 AM
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crazybirdman wrote:
I thought I read that if people with Djem so and twin fought, they could end up in an infinite loop (if they made their saves of course), even if they we're both technically dead?




yes this can happen, but you can also stop it by not Djem SOing. YOu must make the Save, but do not have to make the attack.
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