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Competitive play will survive with no more sets. Options
mmorris
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:55:55 AM
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I have been thinking about the future of competitive play if no more sets were released after MOTF and I have come to the conclusion that the game can survive if some modifications to DCI tourneys are made:

1. The DCI would need to allow 300 point sanctioned tournaments.

This would expand the usability of all the Star Wars factions in the game. It would make it so Rebel, Republic, Seps, and Empire weren't the only options at high level tournaments.

As far as the argument that a 300 point army creates too powerful of squads and would unbalance the game I disagree. I think the game is already broken in certain ways with only 4 of the 9 factions being playable. If the point level is increased imagine how good New Republic becomes when you can have GMLS in your army with something other than an ugnaught? Or how good Sith and Mandos become when you can fit their high costing pieces in and have room to build commander effects in? The same possibilities would be there for OR, and Vong. I really think that by increasing the points the game would survive for much longer if nothing new came out.

2. The second change that would need to happen is a change from 150 point tourneys to 200 point ones and the regional and national stage. The argument for this is the same as above, which is that it will bring a better variety of squads to the highest level of competitive play. Once the game gets stale after a couple years at 200 then increase it to 250 then 300.

I think making the game seem fresh (by adding higher point squads to competitive play) is the only way in which the game can survive. I know the game can't last forever but by making these changes I think it can continue for quite a few years.







EmporerDragon
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:32:10 AM
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You say that these "unplayable" factions (a moniker I strongly disagree with as all factions are quite playable. Top-tier national tournament material? Possibly not, but they do just fine in any level lower than that.) will benefit greatly by an increased point level but the "playable" factions would not? Please explain your logic.
engineer
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:23:26 AM
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IMO, competitive play would only get better.
klecser
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:23:54 AM
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When you increase to 300 points, the strong factions only get stronger. In fact, the current situation only gets worse. If you don't believe, play someone playing the top factions at 300 points, who is just as strong a player as you. You'll lose a majority of the time with the "lesser" factions at 300. The problem isn't the point level. It is the TYPES of commanders and other key pieces present in these factions, and increasing the point level doesn't solve the problem.

Try a month of non-snanctioned 300 point games at your venue with competitive players and you'll see what I mean.
DarthReeves
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:37:00 AM
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300 pt republic squad will now be GM Yoda, Rex, Jedi General Obi, Yularen, Aayla Secura, and a whole bunch of Sevs....see that is even worse for the lopsidedness. I've seen Sith and Old Rep squads at 200 that can wipe the floor with Empire, Rebel, Sep, or Republic squads. Maybe we meet in the middle and say 250 pt squads? Helps with some "tougher to build" factions (New Rep Old Rep Vong etc) but doesn't let Empire go hog wild.
DarthReeves
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:39:51 AM
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Oh and I'll never understand how people consider Rebels to be one of the best factions...Tell me what they have that is better than New/Old Rep? I have to say that Republic and Empire are the top two from what I've seen. But yeah the Rebels aren't THAT great.
engineer
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:47:06 AM
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DarthReeves wrote:
Oh and I'll never understand how people consider Rebels to be one of the best factions...Tell me what they have that is better than New/Old Rep? I have to say that Republic and Empire are the top two from what I've seen. But yeah the Rebels aren't THAT great.

Vassal
joelker41
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:11:44 AM
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DarthReeves wrote:
Oh and I'll never understand how people consider Rebels to be one of the best factions...Tell me what they have that is better than New/Old Rep? I have to say that Republic and Empire are the top two from what I've seen. But yeah the Rebels aren't THAT great.


Just out of curiousity have you seen national metas tournies? The rebels won the last two GenCons. They also won PAX two years ago (last year's was won by YoBuck), and the Snowspeeder is probably the most objected to mini in history outside of maybe GOWK and Boba BH.

I love the OR but in a GenCon level setting they shouldn't win a match, sad but true.
mmorris
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:03:44 AM
Rank: Vornskr
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First off I wasn't saying that the point level needed to be changed today. I was speaking in regards to a possible future where no more minis were being produced. 150 and 200 point squads are perfect as long as new figures are introduced that lead to a change in the game's dynamics. But if no new figures are made the only way to keep the game interesting enough to maintain a competitive fan base is by changing the rules in such a way that it makes the game new and fresh. If all I see is Snowspeeder and Yobuck winning every big tourney for the next 3 years I am going to get bored with the game; as I suspect many of you would. Changing the point value from 150-200 to 200-300 is the only solution I can see that would keep this game interesting after no more minis are produced.

Obviously the best factions would only get better if the point cost was raised, but the other factions would improve as well. If nothing else we would at least see a different and greater amount of variety squads. The fact is, nobody really has a good sense of what really competitive 300 point squads would look like, because there is no real focus on building them. When I sit down and make a 150 or 200 point build for a tourney I don't even bother looking at NR, OR, Vong, Mandos, and Sith because there are no squads in those factions that are good enough to compete with the big 4. At 250 or 300 I could see myself building a competitive squad with every faction.

BountyHunterH
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:08:58 AM
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Forgive my ignorance, but is there discussion that MOTF will be the last set, or is this a what if scenario?

I am just curious.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:37:32 AM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
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BountyHunterH wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but is there discussion that MOTF will be the last set, or is this a what if scenario?

I am just curious.


A lot of people are drawing conclusions, a bit too early imo. We should at least wait till the fall catalog before decrying the end of the game.
carnorjax1
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:44:27 AM
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I think that competitive play is declining, but not so much dead. I am disappointed, becuase I do not think Dark Times will make a big impact on competitive play. I believe the same swap/speed teams will rule the competition. Unless we get some new abilities that will change this, I think MOTF will be another set full of "weak" characters, that will once again, have no effect on the meta.
ewokballs88
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:44:55 AM
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People here are talking about NR as if it is not in the top tier. I think that they cant keep up with the top level factions. Gen Wedge, dodonna, mara , shado,kol,kyle,gmls,leia, sorry if i missed others and add some fringe as well.
carnorjax1
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:56:26 AM
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NR just doesn't stand up to the current squads. GMLS is such a drain on points, and can be beaten without too much effort. NR is just too expensive, and the figs aren't worth the cost.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:59:23 AM
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carnorjax1 wrote:
NR just doesn't stand up to the current squads. GMLS is such a drain on points, and can be beaten without too much effort. NR is just too expensive, and the figs aren't worth the cost.


Top tier NR squads do NOT revolve around Luke. More like, Mara, Kyle, Wedge, and Dodonna. Trust me, NR can compete.
billiv15
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:04:04 PM
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carnorjax1 wrote:
NR just doesn't stand up to the current squads. GMLS is such a drain on points, and can be beaten without too much effort. NR is just too expensive, and the figs aren't worth the cost.


I disagree.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06:56 PM
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carnorjax1 wrote:
NR just doesn't stand up to the current squads. GMLS is such a drain on points, and can be beaten without too much effort. NR is just too expensive, and the figs aren't worth the cost.


I disagree as well, you have Leia & Wedge combo which allow you to reroll failed evades & if you have figures with MOTF such as Shado or Kol, then you can reroll 2 more times. Making them Melee pieces that can run out & still be hard to hit. Theres so much you can do with NR so i have to disagree they are competitive depending on what your team consist of
carnorjax1
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:08:58 PM
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You have Han, and Mara, "Oh look, that's only...95 points." Kyp sucks. Wedge is nice, but playing Rieekan is so much more cost effective. And Dodonna works with Rebels too. Kyles pretty good. Luke only costs more then HALF your points. Everyone else is just not worth it.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:35:07 PM
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I'm not convinced going to 300 points will do anything other than change the scene for a short while. New things may become competititve, and old ideas won't be as useful. How many top-tier squads are there now for 200? Will the number for 300 really be that much higher? Eventually, that will stagnate, and we will need to go to 400 to keep it spicy, and so on. Now I play Axis and Allies, so 4 hour games of minis don't bother me too much, but really, once wizards has pulled the plug the best way to keep the game fresh will be to have a well-intentioned and hopefully even better informed organization redoing some figures.
saeseetiin
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:46:04 PM
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Joined: 5/8/2009
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Would you really want to face things like this.

Activations: 17
Total HP: 780
Avg. Defense: 14.5
Avg. Attack: 4.6



Easy to Copy/Paste version:



--300 rebs--
48 Vader's Apprentice, Redeemed
45 Luke's Snowspeeder
36 Yoda of Dagobah
27 Han Solo, Smuggler
20 Princess Leia
18 C-3PO and R2-D2
17 Bothan Noble
16 Elite Rebel Commando
16 General Crix Madine
14 General Rieekan
13 Human Engineer
9 General Dodonna
8 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Spirit
4 Gran Raider
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(300pts. 17 activations)
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