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TimmerB123 wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:UrbanShmi wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:This is qui-gonn at the peak of his saber fighting powers. The wookieepedia entry on his powers and abilities pretty much define this piece. If you complain about the representation then you clearly don't understand the influence or the character.
You gain power at the expense of tempo (you have to leave ~3rd of your squad hanging for a round, i think the republic can get away with it with swap and tow though). My main issues is that his presence might slow games down so his power output has to be justified.
I think he will be best in a tarpuls swap squad where he can get double pushes off every other round (so long as he is safe to sit still).
I think this piece came together well. Just a note (I know Deri knows this, but so there's no confusion)--he's a commander, so no double push with Tarpals. oops During design, he there was talk of making it so he could double push. So I'm sure Deri was thinking back to that Yep. I've certainly lost track of whether or not some interaction made it onto the final design of a piece. This one did have a lot of different discussions and iterations...easy to do.
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yeah, at one point I was interested in getting him designed for the double push synergy but forgot that he's always had a CE.
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AndyHatton wrote:He still taught Yoda and Obi-Wan. I'm not sure what a Ghost that seemingly can't interact with the environment is going to do to aid in teaching. Hand puppets? He just didn't know how to fade away upon dying like they did preserving his appearance. That does make him different I just don't think its so stark as to not qualify him as a Force Ghost. I think the intent of the movie is clear and I'll be honest the Clone Wars bit feels like a cute way to explain why we never got glowing Liam Neeson.
But yeah to each his own this made me laugh because of the kol skywalker force spirit that gives out lightsaber precision. i would imagine that being able to physically show someone with "hand puppets" how to swing a lightsaber would be much more beneficial then a being you cant see trying to walk you through it. edit: my argument is for fun only. as i said earlier don't really care as the guy is clearly not an issue.
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1) You are assuming a ghost can hold an object or wield some sort of Ghost Lightsaber. 1a) I don't think he is giving some sort of ghost lecture on form at the back of the map. 2) If he can't do that what is Kol going to do "HEY CADE. CADE CADE LOOK AT ME, HIT HIM HERE" or as a voice "Strike him now" like Obi-Wan did with Luke during the Battle of Yavin. Obi-Wan didn't appear on the super structure of the Death Star and point down the exhaust port.
EDIT: This is so removed from the point of spoilers at this point.
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AndyHatton wrote:Ok this is so far removed from the point. Its a ghost. We are arguing ghost mechanics?
1) You are assuming a ghost can hold an object or wield some sort of Ghost Lightsaber. 2) If he can't do that what is Kol going to do "HEY CADE. CADE CADE LOOK AT ME, HIT HIM HERE" or as a voice "Strike him now" like Obi-Wan did with Luke during the Battle of Yavin. Obi-Wan didn't appear on the super structure of the Death Star and point down the exhaust port. no i am not it is pretty easy to hold your hand together like you are holing a lightsaber and make the motions. and actually yeah kol can physically point to an area so within the confines of a sparring room sure kol could show him attack high towards his face here, then low here, slash here... etc... pretty simple and they do it in martial arts all the time, same concept. as far as obi goes, he taught luke how to use the force to make that shot, like walked him through how to let the force flow through him. i simply thought your "hand puppets" thing was funny because it made sense to me that being able to manifest has ALOT of advantages over only being able to talk to someone.
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ok back on track, set 10 designers what is your favorite piece that has been spoiled so far and a little about why?
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if anyone wants to tell a little about: Garm Bel Iblis, Ruthless Tactician that would be cool, interested in this guy.
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Are there a bunch of pieces who have been spoiled on Regionals/SHNN who haven't appeared on this thread yet, eg Hera Syndulla and the Crimson Fury Pilot. It would be nice to talk about something else - I think we've analysed Qui-Gonn enough.
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In general, anything spoiled at regionals is discussed in the following week's SHNN. Maybe I will try to get stats up for some of them this weekend.
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i like Chopper and Sabine. I like them in the show, and i like what we made with them.
Chopper was an attempt to create an old droid that does pretty much everything other astromechs do but in a more restricted fashion. He has tow-lite, override-lite, distraction, industrial repair, a situational cannon and is a bit more offensive with jolt and melee based 10. Most of what he can do requires you to replace attacks so he needs some thought as to what his best activitiy each round should be.
Kind of like on the show, he does a bit of everything but its hard to design around everything and get him functioning on all cylinders because, well, he's old and he wants to do what he wants to do. A hope is that he brings some of the snowspeeders back into play with an indisruptable cannon and he can replace lukes levitate to a small degree.
Certainly a piece that was more flavor than function but he's got a ton going on and i wouldn't be surprised to see him in competitive squads.
Sabine is more about playability than being completely theme. She's a rich character on the show but most of the inspiration comes from the episode where she is fighting against these creatures that hate the sunlight. I think she is with Erza only in this episode. She sets up bombs to take them out as they come close (hence the traps, explosive traps and mines) and she shoots a ton of them (so she has double) and can get pretty offensive with twin and a damage boost (hard to come by, but possible) but its mainly about the bombs. She went through several iterations, with rigged detonators, explosive expert, different bombs and grenades but a lot of it got streamlined because of the synergies with ghost crew (explosive expert was removed specifically because she can get survival expert which would make her saves against explosives +8, so it was taken off). lots of tinkering and efforts to make sure she filled a different role to Mira and that's one reason she got rigging defuser. Thorium charge is there so that you can use her as your main door control wresting some power away from more obvious choices like r7's, erc's, r2 and lobot. The traps and explosive traps makes her a front line fig, kind of a super mando saboteur, so cloaked makes her a bit safer in that role but jedi would happily trade 20 dmg to waste her average 70 HP. She ended up being Rebel because of the desire to make her tough and the difficulty of balancing her power across the factions while getting an accurate character representation. Surprisingly, tough to nail all the aspects but i'm pretty happy with how she has turned out. With all the cloaked counters she needs the right support but should find her way into a diverse range of squads, not to mention she is pretty self sufficient on her own. A pretty unique feel to her figure.
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Names from SHNN tonight: #24 Viper Probe Droid (Imperial) subset #6 Zeb Orrelios (Rebel)
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Deaths_Baine wrote:if anyone wants to tell a little about: Garm Bel Iblis, Ruthless Tactician that would be cool, interested in this guy. This guy took a lot of work. 12 pages of discussions. We were looking at ways of dealing with the factions that can activate one piece at a time.
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leshippy wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:if anyone wants to tell a little about: Garm Bel Iblis, Ruthless Tactician that would be cool, interested in this guy. This guy took a lot of work. 12 pages of discussions. We were looking at ways of dealing with the factions that can activate one piece at a time. that sounds awesome, cant wait to see this guy then.
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This is where we STARTED. Keep in mind it is not where we ended. CE – At the end of your opponents phase, you may move one character two squares. Non-unique followers gain greater mobile attack
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leshippy wrote:This is where we STARTED. Keep in mind it is not where we ended. CE – At the end of your opponents phase, you may move one character two squares.
I love this! that is brilliant.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:leshippy wrote:This is where we STARTED. Keep in mind it is not where we ended. CE – At the end of your opponents phase, you may move one character two squares.
I love this! that is brilliant. I think you may like how his CE ended up being. Needless to say, quite a few pages were covering his CE in particular because it is a first of its kind and could really affect some squads in the meta. Garm is a hard mini to build a squad around, so it makes for some interesting squads we haven't seen made before.
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Mando wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:leshippy wrote:This is where we STARTED. Keep in mind it is not where we ended. CE – At the end of your opponents phase, you may move one character two squares.
I love this! that is brilliant. I think you may like how his CE ended up being. Needless to say, quite a few pages were covering his CE in particular because it is a first of its kind and could really affect some squads in the meta. Garm is a hard mini to build a squad around, so it makes for some interesting squads we haven't seen made before. i understand that. that commander effect is pretty dang powerful, but at the same time it has to be to be an effective counter to act control. but i also see how powerful it can be just in general against everything.
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Garm was one of those pieces that we went around and around on. He went through so many permutations. I'm personally quite happy where he ended up. Mando is correct he will be tricky to build with. But he has new mechanics that are very interesting.
He's one that I predict it will be a sleeper for a few sets and someone will figure out a great synergy with a new piece down the line and he'll become very useful.
I look forward to seeing builds with him
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TimmerB123 wrote:SithBot wrote:but timmerb I don't think banal is the word you are looking for.
I stand by banal Banal: devoid of freshness or originality; hackneyed; trite The conversation, though about a new ability, is the same ol' crap that has been spun for years. Nothing original about it. My eyes glossed over as I saw these frivolous, superficial attacks as well as shallow retorts. Not to mention that all of this is completely beside the fact that the attacks are baseless and downright ignorant. Serenity might be the single most flavorful ability in the game. Remember that moment in the Phantom Menace? I ask this because everyone SHOULD know that moment - the moment of SERENITY that Qui Gon goes through. Yet anyone that has seen that movie can't possibly say that this representation doesn't have the flavor of the character. http://youtu.be/yHqdESArkqU(Starts at 2:11 in the video) So - in summary A) The argument itself is trite and lame B) The argument is 100% incorrect C) even if A and B were not true, the argument doesn't matter. As TINT said - its a game. It has abstractions. Can't wait to come back to this thread in a year and laugh at how ridiculous it all was. I was in Myrtle beach with the family, sorry I have not posted in a while. @ bold I literally laughed out loud. Serenity did nothing for Qui-Gon. He was the "aggressor" (I put in parantheses since Maul was the one using tactics in this battle and had the advantage the whole time) before the shields, he was the aggressor after the shields, he did not gain any bonus in what he was doing at all. He did not get a hit off after Serenity, He did not defend any better after he used Serenity. What did he gain from it? He did the exact same thing and than got faked out, hit in the forehead, and stabbed, and died. Can you show me anything that Serenity did for him? He was using it to renew strength lost in the battle already. Not to gain a huge boost in force "points". Did he use Serenity? yes. Did Serenity give him what would equate to 6 force points? heck no. Reading Serenity it states that it renews/regains their focus and strength. To renew/regain is not to go beyond the scope of what they can already do. It does not say anything about tripling a character's availability to use the force. So in summary - You posted a video as evidence and what....? thought that would prove a point? You backed it up with baseless and downright ignorant comments (where have I heard that) like: Yet anyone that has seen that movie can't possibly say that this representation doesn't have the flavor of the character. Even though, the video clearly shows that Serenity did very very little, if anything at all, for Qui-Gon Jinn. And even though Serenity does not grant people more power. It renews/regains focus and power. The reason why he used Serenity was because he was getting tired. He wanted to regain his focus. A flavorful representation would be this. Force 5 Serenity: Replaces Turn, this character goes back to full Force Points. You people commenting on my grammar while being incapable of understanding what you read on Wookieepedia or see portrayed for you in the video itself makes for a very bad (and annoying) joke. But, by all means, keep ruining characters by not paying attention to details. Do you know who else wookieepedia claims to be one of the greatest swordsman of the era or whatever? Plo Koon Possessing great strength, Koon was a master of hand-to-hand combat. He was also a master of the fifth form of lightsaber combat, Shien. Master Plo was considered to be one of the most skilled swordsman in the Jedi Order Kit Fisto A master practitioner of Shii-Cho, Kit Fisto was considered to be one of the best swordsmen in the Jedi Order. Shaak-ti Considered one of the finest swordswomen of the era, her colleagues regarded her as one of the most cunning warriors of the day. Yep, seems to me that everyone was considered the finest swordsman of their day. Its like a Field Day event around here. everyone gets a ribbon. Going solely off of a description from wookieepiedia is, to say the least, dumb. So in summary (again) - Lets try understanding power levels of individuals before we make Yoda's out of Qui-Gon's and Let's try understanding force powers before we make kaio-ken's out of Serenity's
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We can quibble all day about what's "accurate". (Reminder, Star Wars is fiction, none of it exists) But my other other points stand regardless TimmerB123 wrote:SithBot wrote:but timmerb I don't think banal is the word you are looking for.
So - in summary A) The argument itself is trite and lameB) The argument is 100% incorrect C) even if A and B were not true, the argument doesn't matter.As TINT said - its a game. It has abstractions
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