To be honest jen'ari I thought you were pulling on thin hairs, lots of people chimed in on the correct portrayal of Qui-Gon, but you made your point regardless.

I think I am going to dub you as a purist. Some form of radical that has to have things perfect.


@ the quote above.
It seems like you cant really quibble anymore. He kind of slammed it home with his post. Star Wars is fiction, and does not exist in the world, but it does exist in the world of fiction.

because of the above reasoning...
The statement/idea "you can have your opinion that it is not accurate and I can have mine that it is accurate"
is wrong. There is only one Qui-Gon Jinn and he does things that can be quantified? Am I using that word correctly?

There are different forms a character can take to represent different forms a character takes in the SW verse, but they still need to accurately portray that instance of that character.

The SWM portrayal of Serenity is not an accurate portrayal of Serenity in the SW existence.

Therefore, the argument is not trite, or lame, and it does matter.

The abstractions should never come at the cost of the integrity (rightness?) of the character. If they do, it ceases to be that character.

I would think you would recant your statements that:

anyone that has seen that movie can't possibly say that this representation doesn't have the flavor of the character.

Not to mention that all of this is completely beside the fact that the attacks are baseless and downright ignorant. (this one especially considering his attacks have a strong platform backed by the truth in at least one point)

A) The argument itself is trite and lame

the argument doesn't matter. (never understood why the argument wouldn't matter in the first place unless he was 100% wrong, which he isn't)

Jenari, i think that since you feel so strongly about making a Qui Gon for miniatures in the way you see that he should be represented, how about making one for the Legends format? I'd love to see what you come up with.

But making all this commotion about how one other designer chose to represent Qui Gon is really not helpful to the community. Lots of characters in star wars mini's have many representations, who is to say your version or the V-set version are any more superior? Why not have both. So if you want to make a Qui Gon how you see it, then make it for the format you love to play and people who play the Legends format may just love playing that Qui Gon you make. no one is forcing you to play the Vset version, and as you can see in this forum most people in the community are fine with how this version of Qui Gon works and of how it represents Qui Gon based on the source material. Leave it at that. I am positive that if you design a Qui Gon, no one here on bloomilk will come and make comments about how your portrayals of abilities don't fit the character and don't match the source material. I'd be really surprised it anyone did in fact.

Hopefully we can get back to talking about spoilers other than Qui Gon. It's basically come down to personal preference and no ones preference is superior to others. ok? If you try forcing your preferences on others, then it really comes off as antagonistic and petty. No one if forcing anyone to play the V-set Qui Gon. You don't like him, that is absolutely fine. Just don't go criticizing others for actually liking him and wanting to play him. Fair enough? To quote Tarkin from Star Wars Episode 4: "this bickering is pointless"

I can do that

31/45

Gorman "Camper" Vandrayk
Fringe
Cost 17

HP 60
Def 17
Att +6
Dam 10

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack

Camaraderie [An ally named Jarael gains Protective+10 (+10 damage while a wounded ally whose name contains Camper is within 6 squares)]

Protective +10 [+10 damage while a wounded ally named Jarael is within 6 squares]

Repair 20 [Replaces attacks: touch; remove 20 damage from 1 Droid character.]

Reprogram [Replace attacks: touch; target enemy droid joins this character's squad, save 11. Each time the reprogrammed character would activate, it must first attempt a save of 11; on a failure, that character takes 10 damage, remains unactivated, rejoins the original squad, and is no longer reprogrammed.]

Technological Facilitator [Allies with Con Artist ignore abilities that suppress commander effects while within 6 squares of this character]

Commander Effect
During setup, choose a Unique Fringe Droid follower in your squad. For the rest of the skirmish, that character is subject to commander effects of Fringe allies.

Lord Hethrir--full stats spoiled on 05/28 SHNN
19/45

Lord Hethrir
Imperial
57 pts

HP 130
Def 21
Att +13
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Jedi Hunter [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings]

Rapport [Characters whose names contain Reborn cost 1 less when in the same squad as this character]

Rival [Cannot be in a squad with any character who counts as Emperor Palpatine]

Waru's Purification [During setup, choose a follower with a Force rating who costs less than Lord Hethrir: that character takes 10 damage. For the rest of the skirmish, the chosen follower counts as a character named Reborn, and Lord Hethrir can spend its Force points, but cannot combine them with his own.]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2

Absorb Energy [Force 2: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Remove damage from this character equal to the prevented damage.]

Sith Hunger [Force 1, replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target living enemy, and remove 20 damage from this character. If the target has Force points remaining, transfer 1 Force point from the target to this character.]

Unleash the Force 60 [Force 4, replaces attacks, usable only after an ally with a Force rating is defeated: 60 damage to all other characters within 6 squares; save 11 to reduce damage to 30].

Commander Effect
Allies whose names contain Reborn gain Force Renewal 1.

Wow amazing stats/pieces!

Hera is one of the new best shooters out there and getting excited about using a Ghost Crew Squad!

Also Lok Durd is what huges have been missing for so long. I really like the ability to give a huge splash against living targets. Getting closer to making a huge Separatist team tournament good.

Question about Hethrir, does the character's he "purifies" become subject to his CE?

+1 (ok except that Ewok Jedi come on:P)
I personally don't like Jinn as well- I see where designers are coming from, but this isn't really good interpretation of his character. I'm more worried about LD and Renewal on Yobuck or Mace (LD part)

Hate the rival on Hethrir but I see why this was done - potty Palps and Unleash the Force each round would be problematic

If you ever make an Ewok Jedi, Tim, I'll be forced to blow up the forest moon of Endor,
were those furry 'lil fokk-tards live.

atmsalad reminded me about this, but it feels like one of the most significant pieces in this set has slid through with very little fanfare. Tim posted Aves on page 4, and noone commented, but he looks like one of the power pieces of the set. He negates tempo control or jams a CE - so squads that rely on boardwide CEs (obviously swap with Mas Amedda, but also plenty of swarms like Mon Mothma deathshots or Tarpals cestas) will be hurt by him. On the other hand, at 29 points in Fringe, you need to give up an much better attacker to fit him in, but unless the meta switches radically, I assume that he'll be a fixture in most Fringe squads:



Assuming he gets played, I think he'll have a positive effect for people wanting to see Jedi back - Talon squads will have less firepower against Jedi, but more resilience against technical squads.

Dear TINT, please learn how to comprehend full sentences (and I didnt even have spelling/misword usage issues that I know of).

I said and I will quote myself with some bolded parts

if designers are using wookieepedia as an independent source than we will continue to have inaccurate portrayals come thru the pipes.

Deifinition of IF (from dictionary.com): in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that

Definition of independent (from my head): not dependent

So lets rephrase that sentence.

On the condition that designers are using wookieepedia as a source and not depending on any other sources than we will continue to have inaccurate portrayals come thru the pipes.

Which is a true statement.

If you use wookieepedia as your only source for information while designing I would say that you need to be more careful. Wookieepedia has flaws all over it.

As far as wookieepedia goes, it says lots of things which just are stretches of the truth. I use wookieepedia all the time. I never said not to use wookieepedia. man, seriously, you went off on a rant and just look silly because you are fighting a claim I never made.
Wookieepedia is great for initial knowledge about a topic or character. But it is not enough for designing when designers are in charge of making sure an accurate portrayal is presented.


What are better sources?
movies, comics, books, manuals on: SW weapons, philosophies, species, force users, unique characters, history, games, etc. are all incredible sources. Lots of time I watch videos posted by others (with references that can be looked up) and get on blogs discussing the powers and philosophies of characters.


For the record, since you brought him up, I didn't vote for Cin Drallig.