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Standard and Legacy: Relationship talk Options
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:40:03 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
jen'ari wrote:

@ echo24

if you can go back and read I stated "I think are mad" for that very reason, I dont know why people are so upset because no one has really told me.


Yes, and my point was that all of those reasons that you think people are "mad" (I put that in quotes because I don't think anyone is actually mad, more frustrated and/or tired of hearing the comments) are wrong, and actually the fact that those are the reasons you believe people get upset when you post is pretty offensive.
droidadmiral
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:45:30 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 172
billiv15 wrote:
Probably 80% of this forum or more has been on the V-set team at some point. It's a "we" project. Daylla and the Slaver were erratted specifically because people asked for it and the data backed it up, on here.

Lou is/has been on the design team. You aren't recruiting him to Legacy, and you aren't his defender either. You just jumped on it for another chance to be a *insert.

That's really all this amounts to. You've been antagonistic for years too. (Collective you referring to the Tennessee group.)

And you stepped off a year ago or so apparently. So cool, go play your house rules. Leave the rest alone. You really have nothing to add since you don't play it.



we jumped on it, because he made appoint that we agree with. it was actually going well until you posted that stuff about Bronson.

don't want to derail this though. I have a simple solution for you though, if the TN group posts a thread... ignore it, oh imagine that, there are 2 pages of stuff on this already, and if 80% of the users are on this site are past designers, or current designers it should be easy to ignore lol.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:48:33 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
TheHutts wrote:
Quote:
Not saying that every point has to lead to change or anything, but at least explored or not blanketed would be nice to see. Since we all want balance and a fun game, when someone sees unbalance or an NPE it should be thought upon carefully before dismissed.


Part of the problem is that a lot of the legacy players haven't played standard for quite a while - there have been some new sets since, which have shifted the game quite a bit - super stealth is back, melee Vong are a thing, double Imperial swap is a thing. I'd much rather listen to people who play standard regularly - I know the designers have been asking the New Zealand group for what they most want addressed. You wouldn't listen to my opinion on Legacy pieces, so why would I listen to your opinion on Standard pieces, especially when they're quite weird and presented aggressively. If you actually called out pieces I agreed with as problems, I'd be more interested, but I keep hearing about Mace, Shado Vao, and new Han - I really like all of those pieces.


+1.

It's frustrating to hear people say that things are poorly designed or an NPE or whatever when they don't even play that game and haven't in years. I don't play your format so I don't make comments on what is bad in it, it would be nice to get the same respect. Or at least not have EVERY post you make be about something bad about the official format.

When you are exclusively negative it goes from giving constructive criticism to trolling, and when the way you react to people disagreeing with your comments is by saying that they are wrong and dumb it goes to just flaming.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:49:35 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
I don't generally comment on these Legends vs Standard topics because I just have no real opinion on Legends. I looked at it initially as another alternate format, but by tossing out 90%+ of the Vsets and introducing a full new set of customs (not 10 or 15 like I initially thought), I realized it would be radically different - almost a whole new game. I like playing Star Wars Minis and don't want to divert time from standard SWM to learning/playing another set of stats. Incidentally, that's basically the same reason I haven't jumped on board with Imperial Assault or X-Wing or Netrunner or Star Wars LCG. I'd rather play more Star Wars Minis.

Are there things that could be better? Sure. And hopefully the game moves to make things better. Fewer NPEs. More engagement. More diversity among viable squads (including melee). Etc...
leshippy
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:52:21 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Oh it's coming.....I feel it. Another locked thread....

Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:52:25 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
It's not Star Wars Miniatures without a conspiracy about Bill getting people banned. LOL LOL LOL
leshippy
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:53:46 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Wait Bill can ban people? Who gave him that power? Why wasn't I consulted?
leshippy
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:56:43 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Now we just need Dennis here... then the world would be complete :)
droidadmiral
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:57:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 172
gonna pull a page out of bills book, and respond after saying I would leave it alone:

no I am not saying that you can ban me or do anything to me, I am saying go ahead and message all the designers to rally to have me banned or my posts deleted.

I know bill can't ban or delete people's posts or no one that ever disagrees with him would have an account or be able to say anything lol.
leshippy
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:01:14 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Really...you don't know him very well then.
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:16:10 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
TheHutts wrote:
Quote:
Not saying that every point has to lead to change or anything, but at least explored or not blanketed would be nice to see. Since we all want balance and a fun game, when someone sees unbalance or an NPE it should be thought upon carefully before dismissed.


Part of the problem is that a lot of the legacy players haven't played standard for quite a while - there have been some new sets since, which have shifted the game quite a bit - super stealth is back, melee Vong are a thing, double Imperial swap is a thing. I'd much rather listen to people who play standard regularly - I know the designers have been asking the New Zealand group for what they most want addressed. You wouldn't listen to my opinion on Legacy pieces, so why would I listen to your opinion on Standard pieces, especially when they're quite weird and presented aggressively. If you actually called out pieces I agreed with as problems, I'd be more interested, but I keep hearing about Mace, Shado Vao, and new Han - I really like all of those pieces.


We would most definitely be interested in what you had to say.
As far as not playing standard in a while, this is something that Legacy players have discussed and some of us already joined up for the NZ tournament. I have been trying to find a time to playtest with sithbot for epic III stuff but its a bad time for sithbot. So I, at least, am still interested in playing Standard and will give most new sets a few chances to see if it has evolved to a place that my personal tastes like. That is why I stay on the boards.

So the interest is there and will remain there.
jak
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:19:10 PM
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
Agreed! With Bill's last post on page one
Let legacy drink jawajuice and we'll stick with ole Bloo Milk
If legacy is good for you, that's great, just don't expect all of us to drink the KoolAid
droidadmiral
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:23:03 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 172
since bill or leshippy isn't here to do it, I will break my vow one last time. this is something DeathsBaine just posted on Jawajuice, I thought I would share:

I find the discussion on bloomilk very interesting about this topic, especially since I am banned and cannot talk on there lol. Anyways, thinking about it more and more and, I personally do not care what the people on bloomilk think about me, but I do like having more people to play against on vassal, and in tournaments and what not so here are some of my thoughts:

1. I am suggesting that we just stay away from bloomilk except to posts links to tournaments or to set up games on vassal, or to use the squad builder, and custom pieces sections. Basically I am calling for a drop of their forum section. I am suggesting that we do not comment on their stuff at all anymore, and just let their version of the game be.

2. If we are dropping the v-sets pieces all together we need to make list of the V-set pieces that are designed well and remake versions of them to replace them in our set, some are quite important like the sep Cad Bane, who I think can be left just the way he is.

3. If we do drop the v-set stuff altogether I am for making new factions after movies start getting released and stuff.



I am suggesting these things because I do not want the relationship that Spry, Pego, and some others have to be strained as they want to be able to function in both versions, and that is their right. the majority of us do not need bloomilk other then for things listed above, so lets make it easier on those that do want to participate in both.

just my thoughts.
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:31:11 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
billiv15 wrote:
Probably 80% of this forum or more has been on the V-set team at some point. It's a "we" project. Daylla and the Slaver were erratted specifically because people asked for it and the data backed it up, on here.

Lou is/has been on the design team. You aren't recruiting him to Legacy, and you aren't his defender either. You just jumped on it for another chance to be a *insert.

That's really all this amounts to. You've been antagonistic for years
Lou is leavingnStandard, an invitation to another version of the game can keep him around, you are agiainst this?too. (Collective you referring to the Tennessee group.)

And you stepped off a year ago or so apparently. So cool, go play your house rules. Leave the rest alone. You really have nothing to add since you don't play it.


Once again, a very direct post from bill. If he was a legacy individual, other legacy people would call him out already. Class act that guy. Ultrastar and spry both called me out about being aggressive, its the right thing to do. I think others should call out Bill for being rude and aggressive.

On to your actual post...

You think us inviting Lou is a problem? Instead of leaving SWM altogether he can stick around and play SWM. Sound slike a win win to me.

also, Legacy is not against trying out Standard when changes have been made, as evident in us joining a vassal tournament. You would ratehr us just leave completely? a whole play group?
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:42:59 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
I am going to write something trying to not be offensive

Lou posted a thread about struggling with the game. Where would it have gone if I did not keep the talk going? The same thing was going to happen. the same core of people where giving stump speeches about the game and how it has found balance and things. All fine, but no one was listening. Lou had to to come back to the thread to show them exactly what he was talking about like three times because all people were doing was trying to deflect and defend and cast the game in a different light.

If not forced by someone, the point would fall on deaf ears, again. That formula is very annoying to someone like me who has very similar views to Lou.

So, with that said, I wish that in the future I will not be blunt and aggressive and others actually listen to other people when they make a claim/complaint and not rise to the defense all the time.

i think that will go a long way.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:00:42 PM
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Page 1 of that thread talked about how the v-sets are working on getting melee competitive. Literally the first reply (and I think the second one) were from V-set playtesters talking about how Obi/Ani is coming out soon and that he along with other things will help, and that it will continue being worked on. Lou's concerns were taken into account long before you ever posted anything in that thread.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:13:32 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Deleted some posts. There was likley some collateral of posts that quoted the posts I deleted. This thread was on thin ice from the get go due to history. And what happens on other sites is irrelevant to this site.
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:14:45 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
leshippy wrote:
Really...you don't know him very well then.


That's pretty clear. Apparently I offended one of them more than two years ago and my mere presence on this board again brought out all 5 of them!

Anyways, always up for a good debate. That's part of the fun of designing and thinking through a meta. Not up for this silliness.

Let's clear up a few silly statements.
1. I don't have mod powers, nor do I have mod connections to get anyone banned. Nor would I ever do such a thing if I did. That's just silly.

2. I don't care about Legacy. Didn't care before, don't care now.

3. Lou is one of my best friends, long before and after minis. He does not need your protection from us evil V-set people.

4. Lou is/has been a designer. He's part of the "we."

5. Nothing Lou said fell on deaf ears. That line of logic can stop now. Posting it yet again jensari demonstrates your sheer lack of respect and reading comprehension.

6. I'm not rude, I'm straightforward and intuitive. I can smell a troll post a mile away. I'm sure there are a couple of you not trolling. I know a couple of you are/were. It is what it is. Deny it all you want. I don't particularly care. Don't PM me. Don't respond to me. Move along.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:55:04 PM
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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Location: Nebraska
Where can I find out more about what all this legacy/legends/standard business? Was there an announcement somewhere at one point? Is it being discussed currently? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 4:13:29 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
Where can I find out more about what all this legacy/legends/standard business? Was there an announcement somewhere at one point? Is it being discussed currently? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?


Legends is just an unofficial house-rules format that some guys from Tennessee came up with. They play it locally and also run VASSAL events. You can find info about it in the VASSAL forum here on Bloo; look for threads made by Ultrastar. They have a custom set, special rules, a number of banned WotC figures, and don't use the v-sets (or only use a few of the v-set pieces).

"Standard" is just how everything official is referred to. Its regular minis, with the v-sets and all WotC figures.
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