Big plus 1. Bottom line is it encourages nonengagement. I'd much rather stand back as far as I can and shoot or lock doors then waste shots into a Soresu Style master.

We need abilities that encourage players to get close and engage. Regular Soresu is great.

errata should be over the top and game changing cards that break the game. A lot of these ideas are just personal ones if we go down that road with a errata I would much rather not do it at all.

Aceace, that is a horrible way to approach things. The casual player should absolutely be kept in mind with erratas, perhaps if the powers that be listen And errata something like let's say Naboo, perhaps It will cause that casual player whose opinion you would ignore to come out and play competitively. NPE's can keep the casual player home man. Everyone should keep the casual player in mind because it should be everyone's goal to bring in new players and get the largest possible amount of people involved. We should never ignore someone's opinion. Everyone is here because they love the game.

I agree with Trevor on all of his points. From what I've seen people posting that they'd like to see errata'd I see absolutely no reason to errata:

Batilla's ABM- this is what made the OR competetive and to nerf it to last only tile the end of the round instead of her beginning of her next turn would make her unplayable if she also started with only 2 force. People just need to accept the fact that Bastilla is what the OR need, and she should remain as good as she is. I just don't understand at all why people are so against her! She's been getting slightly less powerful as the sets come out also, what with Disciplined Leader, and Talon and Pelleons Ysalmiri. The OR don't have activation control or many movement breakers. So why take away their ability to compete? The needed the damage boost very badly. The OR were nearly unplayable prior to her coming out. She's fine. Leave her alone. IMO I think she is the most important peice made by the V-set designers to date.

Mace Windu, LotLS- another peice I don't really see a need to errata. If your opponent wants to rely on luck to win, all power to him. For me, most of the time I play or face him, i just view him as a very consistent 60dmg. Usually when I do crit with him, its overkill. sure you can take down someones big piece with a bunch of crits, but really, shouldn't that be a good thing for the person who invested 65pts to play Mace? With the talk about making melee good again, I just can't understand why people are still so vehemently against Mace. The only thing during playtesting for this piece that I personally had a problem with is Force Absorb, but I don't think its as huge an issue anymore with the current meta. Yeah it sucks that Mara Jade can't lightsaber assault for 120 dmg next to him after being levitated, but that is part of his cost. 65pts is a lot for a jedi. His weakness is being shot at, and the meta is working against him right now.

SSM- its a good defensive ability on a just a few peices, all of which (except for Obi/Ani or Old Ben) don't have a ton of damage output. It's not as bad. Now if it was on a mid cost peice that could do 120 dmg, then i think it'd be a problem, but its not. So it is a ability good for tank squads, and as a huge proponent of tank squads, I think its fine to have. There are plenty of counters to it, and some can be brought in with Lobot.

These pieces/abilities aren't breaking the game right now. Like Trevor said, people may want them done away with, but they don't need to be done away with. Daala needed to be dealt with and so did the CDO. ABM/SSM/Mace aren't nearly at the level of needing errata's as those 2 pieces needed.

He didn't say you can't say it. He said that it's different than saying you want something to change. "Need" is a much more extraordinary claim. If you toss around that something "needs" to be changed when it's more appropriate to say that you "want" it to be changed, it weakens your argument as a whole. I've always wanted the Lancer and Poggle and Gha to be changed, but they never needed to be, the game works with them as is.

What would I errata? I would errata nothing. I enjoy watching the Vset creators use zero community input and continually break the game so much that they have to go back and wholesale errata or ban pieces. For me it's like watching a Monty Python skit.

I hear you, Etienne; I know you're not attacking me personally. :) Echo actually gave a perfect summary of what my response to your post would have been, so I'll leave it at that.
Yes, I think that's exactly it. I remember having this conversation with you in person at FrostyCon a few years ago, actually. :)
[You personally don't want to see jedi as powerful as they are in the movies; I personally want to see them closer to that than they currently are. If only one of us was King for a day....]

IMHO, this is actually what makes the whole "What would you errata" question so difficult: it's an incredibly subjective discussion. It's really a question of "What do you personally dislike and want to see changed?" The answer to that question and is very different than the answer to the question of what needs errata.

Some people are upset that their personal top-priority erratas or complaints are not being acted upon, and yet what is top-priority to them personally is not perceived by the majority of the community as being an issue for the game as a whole. This has been true for me as well; I've spoken (quite a bit, actually) about a number of the changes I've wanted to see made to the game. Very few of those changes have come about, though.

Why is that? Well obviously, it's because most of the community is just plain stupid! lol Or maybe it's because the majority of people don't see those things the same way that I do.

So I have 2 choices: p1ss and moan and complain about how stupid the community is, or I can take a chill pill and a dose of humility and relax, because it's just a game. Nobody's forcing me to play it, and I've got plenty of other great hobbies to delve into.

Obviously we need to try to address the most-commonly-voiced NPEs, because those will drive people away from the game if they don't get fixed...but there's no way we can (or should) address every one of the things that people mention as an NPE.

Just a quick word about the idea of nerfing act control. Act control existed since the very beginning of the game being played competitively.

It's just that powerful of a mechanic. It started primarily with B&B using 5 point Stormtroopers to go last in a round, then first with Thrawn. San Hill was used as a counter immediately, which prior to that only three of us even thought the mini was above a 3 on a scale of 1-10.

Kybuck actually uses act control already, it just doesn't start the game with it. But after a gallop or two, I almost always have it. Urbanjedi's lancer squads did the same. That's why late game, if he lost the lancers, pawning his IG-86 was still a powerful winner.

You can't solve this by nerfing act control pieces in the game. It's kind of like the idea that you can fix melee just by nerfing shooters. You can't, and won't. Just have to work within the confines of what the game empowers. It empowers things like door control, activations, and non-melee.

I like how you put that, good post!

You're right that it doesn't have a lot of impact on competitive play, but it has a ton of impact on casual play. Regionals are not the only important aspect of SWM.

Lets say we ban Poggle. Then in set 12 we create a piece that is fine and balanced without Poggle around, but is totally broken with him around. Some players won't know that Poggle is banned because they don't follow the boards closely and don't attend major events. They now have a totally broken version of the game, and probably stop playing. If we do a dozen erratas, that makes it even worse, because it becomes much much more likely that this happens.

The fact that when you started playing again you immediately wanted to attend a regional makes you an anomaly, not the average player. Errata would be great for you, but could easily ruin the game for others.


I'm not even saying "We should never ever do errata or banning because of this"; I supported the CDO ban. I'm saying that it needs to be kept in mind and is a good reason to not be too quick to errata/ban.