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changing prices of swm Options
brennan
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:48:41 AM
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engineer wrote:
brennan wrote:
What exactly is a V-set???

Virtual set. You can expect to start to see stuff after the last WOTC set is released.

Are they sets that i can buy and use?
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 12:13:32 PM
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Mickey wrote:
Just recently someone put up almost every VR starting at 99 cents per. I didn't watch them all to end but most of them were not being bid on.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some low-end VR's are still at .99 with over a day left (don't forget that much of the bidding is done in the last few seconds), but looking at the completed listings, the lowest auction under 'Star Wars miniatures VR' was Mon Mothma who went for $3+, not including shipping.

Mickey wrote:
So I do have some "proof" albeit word of mouth and what I have witnessed on ebay.


Saying you witnessed something and having proof are quite different. Wink

Maybe you actually do have proof from eBay prices. I'd love to see it.

Additionally, the games you mentioned that are doing poorly: do they have well organized bodies that continue tournament play? SWCCG does. SWM is already set up for that, and well underway in getting a V-Set together. Your "proof" is a true apples-to-oranges statment, not like adminsid's that was based on differences in storage. What makes you so sure that SWM won't follow a similar course to SWCCG? I've already stated the numerous similarities. By the evidence, SWM is much more similar to SWCCG than anything else? If you care to disagree, it's be great if you supplied at least some reasoning for why, even if you can't come up with evidence.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 12:23:35 PM
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brennan wrote:
engineer wrote:
brennan wrote:
What exactly is a V-set???

Virtual set. You can expect to start to see stuff after the last WOTC set is released.

Are they sets that i can buy and use?


From what I have understood, what's gonna happen is like this.

A set of 60 alternate cards will be made for example, a "Luke Skywalker Farmboy" card will be made, one that might look like this (Just a hasty example)

Cost 19
HP 50
Def 16
Att +7
Damage 20

Unique
Deadeye
Pilot
Accurate Shot
Careful Shot
Final Shot

Force 3

The card can be used instead of the Luke Skywalker, Rebel card for the Luke Rebel piece from Rebel Storm. Or, the player can still use the original Card if they want. As far as I know, you will likely need the figure that matches the alt card, but I have also heard talk of different luke minis being usable for a luke card, like luke HOY being OK for use with the alternate Luke rebel card since he is nonmelee, etc.

The card will be available for download and then print for free, or, you can buy them on cardstock for a small fee.

That might not be entirely true, but that's what I've gathered.

ChuckaFett
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 12:58:59 PM
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Glad that people are excited about the V-sets and that many people are involved. I'm another one who has no interest, but wish those that do the best.
I seriously doubt that V-sets will have a positive or negative effect on the prices of minis. My guess is that most of the people who are interested in playing with V-sets already have all the minis they need to use the new cards, so they won't be hitting the stores or ebay in droves to buy them. How many Luke Rebel/Farmboy figures does a guy need, seems like one would suffice. I suspect prices will continue to stay low through the summer or end of the year as people dump their collections. Prices may eventually go up, but I don't think V-sets will have much to do with it.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 1:09:20 PM
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ChuckaFett wrote:
Glad that people are excited about the V-sets and that many people are involved. I'm another one who has no interest, but wish those that do the best.
I seriously doubt that V-sets will have a positive or negative effect on the prices of minis. My guess is that most of the people who are interested in playing with V-sets already have all the minis they need to use the new cards, so they won't be hitting the stores or ebay in droves to buy them. How many Luke Rebel/Farmboy figures does a guy need, seems like one would suffice. I suspect prices will continue to stay low through the summer or end of the year as people dump their collections. Prices may eventually go up, but I don't think V-sets will have much to do with it.


Remember that V-sets will not be exclusively unique characters. Also, note that not only will V-sets make old figs playable, but when that happens, many figs that are currently good might not be in as high demand. The only way V-sets couldn't affect prices is if the number of people who subscribe to them are insignificant in terms of how many buyers affect price. If only 20 people use v-sets, then I would agree there would be little to no effect. But, going from the SWCCG example, it's quite likely we'll get players in the hundreds, not just dozens. The most important thing for me right now is to make sure that people actually know what they are missing out on before they decide v-sets are not for them. A lot of people have misconceptions (I'm not saying you do Chucka). swmgamers.com has a lot of ways for the average person to get involved in the development of the game. It might be a good idea for many to take a look and see all the cool things that can be done before deciding not to sign on. If you feel like you weren't consulted in the advancement of the game at gamers, it's your own fault (this isn't at anyone specific); there are plenty of opportunities.
ChuckaFett
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 2:47:48 PM
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
ChuckaFett wrote:
Glad that people are excited about the V-sets and that many people are involved. I'm another one who has no interest, but wish those that do the best.
I seriously doubt that V-sets will have a positive or negative effect on the prices of minis. My guess is that most of the people who are interested in playing with V-sets already have all the minis they need to use the new cards, so they won't be hitting the stores or ebay in droves to buy them. How many Luke Rebel/Farmboy figures does a guy need, seems like one would suffice. I suspect prices will continue to stay low through the summer or end of the year as people dump their collections. Prices may eventually go up, but I don't think V-sets will have much to do with it.


Remember that V-sets will not be exclusively unique characters. Also, note that not only will V-sets make old figs playable, but when that happens, many figs that are currently good might not be in as high demand. The only way V-sets couldn't affect prices is if the number of people who subscribe to them are insignificant in terms of how many buyers affect price. If only 20 people use v-sets, then I would agree there would be little to no effect. But, going from the SWCCG example, it's quite likely we'll get players in the hundreds, not just dozens. The most important thing for me right now is to make sure that people actually know what they are missing out on before they decide v-sets are not for them. A lot of people have misconceptions (I'm not saying you do Chucka). swmgamers.com has a lot of ways for the average person to get involved in the development of the game. It might be a good idea for many to take a look and see all the cool things that can be done before deciding not to sign on. If you feel like you weren't consulted in the advancement of the game at gamers, it's your own fault (this isn't at anyone specific); there are plenty of opportunities.


I do realize that V-sets will not be exclusively unique characters, but I would venture that most of the players who would be using the V-sets have multiples of most of the non-uniques and would not be searching for them in quantities great enough to influence prices.
I think your second point illustrates my argument beautifully, in that I think the situation you describe is what will happen. As of March 1st there are 5892 registered DCI players, in the constructed format, from all over the world. I'm sure not all of them are current players, but I think you could make an argument that it's the pool of players that would be interested in continuing the game via V-set. I just don't see great numbers, hundreds, of people suddenly wanting to be competitive in the game who aren't already. Maybe over time if the good folks at Gamers are successful where WOTC failed and they're able to grow the game well, but not initially.
Let's say you have 500 people involved/interested in the V-set project over on Gamers, less than 10% of the registered DCI players. (That may be more than what will be involved, it may be less, really just a wild guess as you mentioned hundreds in your statement). How many of those currently competitive players above, who continue to play competitively, don't already have most of the pieces in enough quantities to play with a new V-set? I would venture not that many, and not enough to drive up prices.
I guess it's simple supply and demand to me, and I just don't see V-sets having a large enough effect on the demand for pieces to drive prices. I think that there are enough people who will leave the game and sell their pieces to more than adequately supply the needs of the small number of people who will want to fill in the holes of their V-sets.

Edit:
I think what will keep prices in relatively the same spot they are now is the fact that it's a Star Wars game and I think it will always have some sort of collectible value, even if it's not huge.
(That is until us 30 somethings are all dead and gone or at least until we're all playing golf and eating dinner at 4pm to catch the early bird special in Sunny Florida Tongue )

Sithborg
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 2:56:53 PM
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Okay I have removed baiting and inflamitory posts. Let's keep on subject here.

The SWCCG example is a good one. Yes, our playerbase is going to drop, no one is denying that. However, if the Gamers group is set up correctly, with a strong tourny set up ALONG with V sets, this game will survive. And if the game still lives, prices will still be up there, and not rock bottom. Sure, they will never be CS level highs, but we are at that point right now, so we will have some flucuations.

Seriously, what other game that has been out of print still have cases going for $100, much less $200+.
yodaccm
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:02:18 PM
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Don't see why V-set will have any effect on the price of minis. If you don't have the mini that corresponds to the V-set stats, then just use any mini you have as a place holder. If you are using stats that aren't necessarily "official", in regards of being produced by a singular company with a licensing agreement, then there should be no real restriction on what fig you use.

Why should I have to go out and buy an old Zam Wessel fig, for example, to use new stats that the fans have created, collectively? I mean, look at the 181st pilot from IE for example. He serves as double duty, why shouldn't the same be done with V-sets?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:09:21 PM
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I don't know, to keep some integrety to the game. And a reason to use those old peices many have in the bin of darkness.

The same arguement can be used right now. Why do you have to buy the new stuff, just proxy it at home.
yodaccm
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:09:23 PM
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Also, I don't think it would be fair for those who do not have the figs that will be given new stats. Those who have the current mini will basically be getting a "free" mini while others who do not will have to go out and buy the corresponding figure. Unlike, if an entirely new, official set came out, everyone would be in the same boat and would have to buy boosters and cases to get the new figures. V-sets should keep that in mind, I believe.

My opinion.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:10:30 PM
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yodaccm wrote:
Also, I don't think it would be fair for those who do not have the figs that will be given new stats. Those who have the current mini will basically be getting a "free" mini while others who do not will have to go out and buy the corresponding figure. Unlike, if an entirely new, official set came out, everyone would be in the same boat and would have to buy boosters and cases to get the new figures. V-sets should keep that in mind, I believe.

My opinion.


It is also unfair that you don't get what you want in a blind booster. This is a COLLECTABLE game. Don't like it, board games are always fun.
yodaccm
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:26:04 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
yodaccm wrote:
Also, I don't think it would be fair for those who do not have the figs that will be given new stats. Those who have the current mini will basically be getting a "free" mini while others who do not will have to go out and buy the corresponding figure. Unlike, if an entirely new, official set came out, everyone would be in the same boat and would have to buy boosters and cases to get the new figures. V-sets should keep that in mind, I believe.

My opinion.


It is also unfair that you don't get what you want in a blind booster. This is a COLLECTABLE game. Don't like it, board games are always fun.


Geez, I never said V-sets were bad, I'm just giving an opinion on how a certain aspect of them should be handled. I know the subject of V-sets is rather touchy right now, but if you can't feel free to give your opinion on them, then what's the point. I sense a certain "you are either with me or against me mentality" when it comes to V-sets, and we all know what Obi-Wan said about that. Oh wait...I just remembered your name =)
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:39:56 PM
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yodaccm wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
yodaccm wrote:
Also, I don't think it would be fair for those who do not have the figs that will be given new stats. Those who have the current mini will basically be getting a "free" mini while others who do not will have to go out and buy the corresponding figure. Unlike, if an entirely new, official set came out, everyone would be in the same boat and would have to buy boosters and cases to get the new figures. V-sets should keep that in mind, I believe.

My opinion.


It is also unfair that you don't get what you want in a blind booster. This is a COLLECTABLE game. Don't like it, board games are always fun.


Geez, I never said V-sets were bad, I'm just giving an opinion on how a certain aspect of them should be handled. I know the subject of V-sets is rather touchy right now, but if you can't feel free to give your opinion on them, then what's the point. I sense a certain "you are either with me or against me mentality" when it comes to V-sets, and we all know what Obi-Wan said about that. Oh wait...I just remembered your name =)


Your concern becomes a double standard if you apply it to v-sets and not to the game as it currently is. Supposedly it's bad that V-sets will make pieces that are hard to get good. Do you also think it's bad that good playable pieces were made VR's by wizards? If so, then collectable gaming probably isn't your thing. If you don;t think it's bad that wizards did that, then why would it be bad if the gamers designers did?

BTW, the "with me or agianst me" stuff is what I keep hearing. I don't see how other people having thought things through more than you have makes them declarative or bossy.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:42:15 PM
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I just have to remember, most of you haven't been through these exact same debates over the years.
billiv15
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:50:24 PM
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Yes, Scott, that's important to remember.

I'll just add this question for yoda. Do you also find if unfair when WotC releases figures like the Ithorian Commander that primarily helps old figures? I will tell you, it's fine if you do, but most posters over the years have asked for those types of "helpers" in new sets, rather than the more common helping the new stuff commanders.

But as to your concerns, the designers will consider ease of access to minis as part of the decision. Not all minis will be remade VRs from old sets. But be clear, some will. And for tournament play, we are still discussing the exact details, but generally you will have to have the recommended mini (or an easily recognizable custom) most likely. You won't be able to use any mini you want (as that leads to a level of confusion that becomes very abusive and we as players cannot support abusive rules).
yodaccm
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 4:00:44 PM
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I don't think anyone would appreciate someone suggesting to them to go play a board game over a game they have invested so much money into over a singular difference of opinion.

Thanks for clarifying the situation Billiv.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 4:20:54 PM
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yodaccm wrote:
I don't think anyone would appreciate someone suggesting to them to go play a board game over a game they have invested so much money into over a singular difference of opinion.



However, this "singular difference of opinion" is over the very definition of a collectible game. Your compliant is against the idea of collectible gaming. Read over it again, and it should be clearer.

urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:15:17 PM
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Yoda

You sort of make your own counter-point. The 181st serves double duty, so could Zam. You (generic you) couldn't use a stormie mini and the Elite At-At driver card right? So why should you be able to use Zam Bounty Hunter V-card and a jawa scavenger mini?

Yes it could make it difficult to track down certain minis but that is the nature of a Collectible Game. I am sure the designers are taking this into consideration and will not do anything crazy and make new V-cards for something like the CS Destroyer Droid or Scout Trooper on Speeder or Storm Commando.
Mickey
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 4:02:36 AM
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I'm glad you are all so excited about v-sets. One thing I have noticed about posting in SWM community forums is that posting your personal opinions on subjects is like discussing religion or politics. Wow.

Well I for one will not participate in any tourneys using V-sets. If that means missing out on competitive play oh well. I'm more interested in errata than seeing entire cards changed.

As for pricing, all I can say is go list your figs and see if you get the prices you want Wink I've been watching ebay on swm for over a year now. I know what I could get certain figs for and what they are going for now. The prices have dropped on most pieces. The only way the prices are going to go up is if more new players come into the game increasing the demand. Since the supply will go down once the warehouses are emptied then prices might increase. V-sets, in my opinion, are not going to raise prices. Time will only tell when we see v-sets come about which I'm assuming will not happen until at least later this year.
engineer
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 5:31:03 AM
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Mickey wrote:
Well I for one will not participate in any tourneys using V-sets. If that means missing out on competitive play oh well. I'm more interested in errata than seeing entire cards changed.

You bring up an interesting point.

What is the difference between errata and "entire cards changed"?

Was GOWK errata? It seems like a big change to me (with both changes).

How many characters (numbers and letter) can I change on a card before it's entirely changed? Number please. Confused
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