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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:trappedslider wrote:just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game? Look at my pizza example above, that's how I would answer that question. In some ways I feel that to do something right you have to do the best you can with what you have. Wizards sure as shootin' didn;t even come close. But, the game still is pretty fun. so basicly from what I'm understanding in your opinion the only right thing they did was make the game fun?
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:carnorjax1 wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.
"uniformed whiners?" Really? Wow, so I guess now if we like what WOTC did better, we get labeled as uniformed whiners. No, you're right, if we don't like V-sets, we suck.  Maybe I liked what Wizards did with minis, and while I may not be happy with them pulling out, I'm sure they had a tough job. It's hard playtesting figs, and with tons of people demanding they make different figs, it's hard to make something to please everyone. If you would have actually read my post, instead of going out of your way trying to get offended (boredom?), you would have noticed that I was speaking of those who have unreasonable expectations: "when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set." Did you ignore that part? I know I post long posts, but before accusing me of something I think you could at least be decent and read more than just the first few lines. Anyways, it's cool that you can look past all of the terrible proofreading and overall lack of give-a-hoot that wizards had. Maybe you're a glass half full kinda person. That's cool. But for me, I see all the places where with just a tiny bit more effort we could have a a much better product. Now at Gamers, we have a group not bound by contract to put a Vader or whatever in every set, a group that knows more about balance and is more creative than the wizards designers ever were, a group that is actually motivated to do a good job, and a group that actually gives a darn what the players want. How could it NOT be better than the lazy and unconcerned WotC? I don't go out of my way to get offended, but your comment was a bit vague. I was under the impression you were only using that as an example of the different people who may not like V-sets. I did in fact read you entire post the first go around, and I agree with you on some points, WOTC customer service essentially sucked. They would would mix up packs, and then sometimes never even send you the right figs. The main point of my post, was not to sound haughty and offended, but to point out, that WOTC should get some slack. Star Wars is huge. Everyone has their favorite character, and they want to see that character made. When you have hundreds of people demanding their character be made, what do you do? People want a powerful Jaina, so let's say WOTC makes a powerful Jaina. then those same people turn around and rip WOTC's throats out claiming she's broken and they killed the game. The alternative: WOTC makes a weaker Jaina. People are content at first, becuase they get the fig they want, but then they realize she doesn't have everything they want on her card, and they slam WOTC and demand another version. I mean, what do you do in this situation? At any rate, I'm kind of rambling now, but that is a tough place to be. People say they didn't listen to their wants, but if I was in WOTC's place, I would have done exactly what they did. I would have stayed clear away from those characters( Revan Redeemed, Mando Jaina, Overlord Shimra) for the sole reason of fan outrage that I mentioned above
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trappedslider wrote:just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game? Yes, they did. However, as always on an internet forum, the negatives are far louder than the positive.
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Sithborg wrote:trappedslider wrote:just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game? Yes, they did. However, as always on an internet forum, the negatives are far louder than the positive. Very true
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trappedslider wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:trappedslider wrote:just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game? Look at my pizza example above, that's how I would answer that question. In some ways I feel that to do something right you have to do the best you can with what you have. Wizards sure as shootin' didn;t even come close. But, the game still is pretty fun. so basicly from what I'm understanding in your opinion the only right thing they did was make the game fun? What are you trying to prove? Like I siad, the pizza example states as best I can my view on this.
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carnorjax1 wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:carnorjax1 wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.
"uniformed whiners?" Really? Wow, so I guess now if we like what WOTC did better, we get labeled as uniformed whiners. No, you're right, if we don't like V-sets, we suck. Maybe I liked what Wizards did with minis, and while I may not be happy with them pulling out, I'm sure they had a tough job. It's hard playtesting figs, and with tons of people demanding they make different figs, it's hard to make something to please everyone. If you would have actually read my post, instead of going out of your way trying to get offended (boredom?), you would have noticed that I was speaking of those who have unreasonable expectations: "when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set." Did you ignore that part? I know I post long posts, but before accusing me of something I think you could at least be decent and read more than just the first few lines. Anyways, it's cool that you can look past all of the terrible proofreading and overall lack of give-a-hoot that wizards had. Maybe you're a glass half full kinda person. That's cool. But for me, I see all the places where with just a tiny bit more effort we could have a a much better product. Now at Gamers, we have a group not bound by contract to put a Vader or whatever in every set, a group that knows more about balance and is more creative than the wizards designers ever were, a group that is actually motivated to do a good job, and a group that actually gives a darn what the players want. How could it NOT be better than the lazy and unconcerned WotC? The main point of my post, was not to sound haughty and offended, but to point out, that WOTC should get some slack. Star Wars is huge. Everyone has their favorite character, and they want to see that character made. When you have hundreds of people demanding their character be made, what do you do? People want a powerful Jaina, so let's say WOTC makes a powerful Jaina. then those same people turn around and rip WOTC's throats out claiming she's broken and they killed the game. The alternative: WOTC makes a weaker Jaina. People are content at first, becuase they get the fig they want, but then they realize she doesn't have everything they want on her card, and they slam WOTC and demand another version. I mean, what do you do in this situation? I wasn't really concerned with figure selection when I was talking about what wizards did. My biggest complaints in that regard are with SOME of the reprints: Nikto and rebel commando, maybe one or two more. I understand completely that Wizards couldn't satisfy every random fanboy whim and they couldn't make an EU only set. I get that. But, the proofreading and cookie-cutting was atrocious, that was my main concern (Not to mention almost 0 comunication, poor upkeep on rules issues, and like you said, overall crappy coustomer service.) I've been thinking along the same lines as you for a long time, in that fanboy whims are often unreasonable. (My arguments have been against Vader and Palpatine in the Sith faction for example, and against notions that EU-Only sets are a good idea)
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:carnorjax1 wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:carnorjax1 wrote:AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.
"uniformed whiners?" Really? Wow, so I guess now if we like what WOTC did better, we get labeled as uniformed whiners. No, you're right, if we don't like V-sets, we suck. Maybe I liked what Wizards did with minis, and while I may not be happy with them pulling out, I'm sure they had a tough job. It's hard playtesting figs, and with tons of people demanding they make different figs, it's hard to make something to please everyone. If you would have actually read my post, instead of going out of your way trying to get offended (boredom?), you would have noticed that I was speaking of those who have unreasonable expectations: "when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set." Did you ignore that part? I know I post long posts, but before accusing me of something I think you could at least be decent and read more than just the first few lines. Anyways, it's cool that you can look past all of the terrible proofreading and overall lack of give-a-hoot that wizards had. Maybe you're a glass half full kinda person. That's cool. But for me, I see all the places where with just a tiny bit more effort we could have a a much better product. Now at Gamers, we have a group not bound by contract to put a Vader or whatever in every set, a group that knows more about balance and is more creative than the wizards designers ever were, a group that is actually motivated to do a good job, and a group that actually gives a darn what the players want. How could it NOT be better than the lazy and unconcerned WotC? The main point of my post, was not to sound haughty and offended, but to point out, that WOTC should get some slack. Star Wars is huge. Everyone has their favorite character, and they want to see that character made. When you have hundreds of people demanding their character be made, what do you do? People want a powerful Jaina, so let's say WOTC makes a powerful Jaina. then those same people turn around and rip WOTC's throats out claiming she's broken and they killed the game. The alternative: WOTC makes a weaker Jaina. People are content at first, becuase they get the fig they want, but then they realize she doesn't have everything they want on her card, and they slam WOTC and demand another version. I mean, what do you do in this situation? I wasn't really concerned with figure selection when I was talking about what wizards did. My biggest complaints in that regard are with SOME of the reprints: Nikto and rebel commando, maybe one or two more. I understand completely that Wizards couldn't satisfy every random fanboy whim and they couldn't make an EU only set. I get that. But, the proofreading and cookie-cutting was atrocious, that was my main concern (Not to mention almost 0 comunication, poor upkeep on rules issues, and like you said, overall crappy coustomer service.) I've been thinking along the same lines as you for a long time, in that fanboy whims are often unreasonable. (My arguments have been against Vader and Palpatine in the Sith faction for example, and against notions that EU-Only sets are a good idea) Very true, I agree completely about reprints, we could very well just have new characters rather then getting an a reprint ARF and Rocket BD within 2 sets. The corner cutting they did was a low blow, but times are tough. I think Maul and Palps can be in the Sith faction, but Vader or Dooku, or Anakin=No way. Every game has it's flaws, and SWM is no exception, I suppose we just have to bear with cons and enjoy the pros.
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trappedslider wrote:just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game? Yeah a ton of things. A solid rule set, the game was phased out nto revamped to a version 2.0 which would have killed it. The rules were solid and such a revamp was never necessary. A huge mix of abilites, and characters. (however I can go into a list of negatives about both of these, too many of certain characters and how certain abilities were wasted on junk) Just to state a few
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Speaking of the V sets, I'm more than willing to donate my time to help with them...not sure who's in charge of that, but PM me if you want my help :)
You can see some of my work in my customs thread
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:Uggie Demo wrote:@ Admerialmotii:
I agree with you, Wizards dropping the game might be a good thing, but we dont need to keep sulking on the fact that they stopped the game.
Ohhhhh I get it. I thought you were against people ripping on wizards in general. I'm all for ripping on Wizards. However, I think that the game will be in better hands. There are a few regrets (AAT, Jerec (MotF?)), but we will get more of the characters we want that are playable and not broken. I'am against people ripping on wizards, because if they didn't start we wouldn't be here disscusing this right now. But I agree with you that the game is in better hands now.
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Carnorjax1 wrote:
I mean it's hard to think out stats, becuase they don't have a list of all the possible combos that the fig can be deadly with. They might think that a fig will have no big effect on the game, but then a player makes a nasty team with the fig, and everyone starts to blame WOTC saying that the piece is broken, and ragging on them. Then they have to deal with fans who want figs to have outrageous stats, everything they have in the movies.
I do agree with you at the end of that...I had that problem first when making my custom stats, and then I realized, WOW, my NULL ARC is 80 points, and that is all because of special abilties Ordo used twice in the book...
It's hard to draw the line between stats we want to see and stats we know are realistic.
We see Han repairing the Falcon several times, right?
No one complains about him having not industrial repair or anything.
I try to think about what would most reflect the character, not all of his or her abilities
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CC-23478 wrote:Carnorjax1 wrote:
I mean it's hard to think out stats, becuase they don't have a list of all the possible combos that the fig can be deadly with. They might think that a fig will have no big effect on the game, but then a player makes a nasty team with the fig, and everyone starts to blame WOTC saying that the piece is broken, and ragging on them. Then they have to deal with fans who want figs to have outrageous stats, everything they have in the movies.
I do agree with you at the end of that...I had that problem first when making my custom stats, and then I realized, WOW, my NULL ARC is 80 points, and that is all because of special abilties Ordo used twice in the book...
It's hard to draw the line between stats we want to see and stats we know are realistic.
We see Han repairing the Falcon several times, right?
No one complains about him having not industrial repair or anything.
I try to think about what would most reflect the character, not all of his or her abilities That's becuase no one uses repair! The problem I had with the custom Captain Fordos online is they were all ridiculously powerful, I liked yours though, he was perfectly balanced and wasn't too powerful or costly
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It is unfortunate that WOTC decided to not continue the game, but they have left us with a GREAT game to keep playing! And a great fan base and followers to keep it alive. Imagine what SWM would have been without SWGamers, or BlooMilk, or SWShoebox, or MiniManager, or Holocron...need I go on?
For the amount of effort WOTC put into the game, it was quite well done. Of course, it was MUCH better once the gamers got involved and started helping things out. ;)
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imyurhukaberry wrote:It is unfortunate that WOTC decided to not continue the game, but they have left us with a GREAT game to keep playing! And a great fan base and followers to keep it alive. Imagine what SWM would have been without SWGamers, or BlooMilk, or SWShoebox, or MiniManager, or Holocron...need I go on?
For the amount of effort WOTC put into the game, it was quite well done. Of course, it was MUCH better once the gamers got involved and started helping things out. ;)
Well said huk.  It really burned my butt when WOTC decided to stop making mini's. However once I calmed down and put some thought into it. I found myself once again thinking that without them I wouldn't be having as much fun as I do now. I wouldn't have met a great group of people like we have here. And we do have a great group of people here.  We may not always get along and we have our differences, but without WOTC and all the site's huk mentioned we'd be sitting at home bored off our collective rear-ends! On a side note Carnorjax1 wrote: "Then they have to deal with fans who want figs to have outrageous stats, everything they have in the movies." IMO those fans should be playing the RPG then and not the Mini game. Just my opinion. 
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SquelchDog wrote:It really burned my butt when WOTC decided to stop making mini's. However once I calmed down and put some thought into it. I found myself once again thinking that without them I wouldn't be having as much fun as I do now. I wouldn't have met a great group of people like we have here. And we do have a great group of people here. We may not always get along and we have our differences, but without WOTC and all the site's huk mentioned we'd be sitting at home bored off our collective rear-ends! I think we should also realize that WotC isn't the only company to have ever made a minis game. I don't really buy the "Without wizards we'd have nothing" angle. This is Star Wars. Someone else would have had the gaming license. Now, I'm not saying anyone else would have automatically done better, but I think there was a very good chance, considering all they would have had to do was actually give a darn.
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:SquelchDog wrote:It really burned my butt when WOTC decided to stop making mini's. However once I calmed down and put some thought into it. I found myself once again thinking that without them I wouldn't be having as much fun as I do now. I wouldn't have met a great group of people like we have here. And we do have a great group of people here. We may not always get along and we have our differences, but without WOTC and all the site's huk mentioned we'd be sitting at home bored off our collective rear-ends! I think we should also realize that WotC isn't the only company to have ever made a minis game. I don't really buy the "Without wizards we'd have nothing" angle. This is Star Wars. Someone else would have had the gaming license. Now, I'm not saying anyone else would have automatically done better, but I think there was a very good chance, considering all they would have had to do was actually give a darn. Ya, I see what your saying. My problem, and maybe it's just me, is all the WOTC bashing. Now, I have my complaints and issue's with them. And I posted a thread in the off topic section here about them stopping production. I was still a little PO'ed then. However to me, and again maybe it's just me. It seems like some people take it too far. It's one thing to post a complaint or a constructive criticism. But to berate them and bash WOTC over the head repeatedly with a sledgehammer of word's. Is IMO, taking it too far. Again just my opinion. I got soooooooo tired of all the complaining at the WOTC forum's that I stopped going there. That and several other reasons but I'm trying to stay on topic here. Usually I avoid these types of threads. Mostly because I'm not going to get into an argument with someone over a game. Ya, another company could have made a mini game, and who knows maybe it would have been better. Then again it could have been worse. Steve aka Fool, interviewed one of the WOTC guy's. Posted here about it and the thread instantly turned into a WOTC bashing thread! I mean come on people! Really?!? Now myself, I went out of my way to thank Fool for doing the interview. Posted in the thread and sent him a bloo mail. Ya, they stopped production and that stink's, but they gave us a really fun game. And I think we could show a little more appreciation. And a little less bashing. Just my opinion.
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