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**SPOILER** Bane, Dynasty of Evil Options
Wysten
Posted: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 5:04:07 PM
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Evotrooper wrote:
yodaccm wrote:
As for those who suggest that Sidious was not on the same level as Bane, and was cowardly and more cunning, the dude took on Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tin, and Agen Kolar single-handedly, quickly killing all but Windu.


I have little opinion about the "cowardly" part...

According to what Sidious told Anakin in the movie, Sidious said that his master Darth Plagueis lost all the power and Sidious killed Plagueis in his sleep...

I didn't read the books about RotS, so i'm not sure was Sidious telling the truth...

If so, Sidious didn't follow the rule of two and duel his powerless master which was really brave, and had to "cunningly" kill Plagueis in his sleep... wow, really impressiveThumbDown


Aye, but then again Sidious was not the sort of guy to fight at any sort of disadvantage, if he felt he was, he changed the circumstances to suit him. While he may have been able to kill his "powerless" master (Not sure where that came from, just probably something he threw in), it was possibly due to the fact if they both clashed, Sidious was aware that he possibly may fail. So he removed all probabity of himself losing by taking an advangerous situation.

Coward? Not really, again he did face down and defeat several Jedi Masters within seconds of eachother and probably could of easily killed off Mace in that space of time, just either Mace suddenly started paying attention, or Palp shifted down a gear to at least make the look closer. He even let Luke swing at him in the confort Vader would block him, even though they both despise eachother. He allowed himself to be placed on a Sepritist ship that could of easily ended in tragidy if Ani had failed to land the wreaked ship.

Just as far as I am conserned, Palp is not one to take risks often. He only placed himself in danger when he actually needed to. The fact he killed 3 masters in a incrediably brief time with one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in his pressence indicates that when he needs to, he can prove how strong he is.
Evotrooper
Posted: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:17:21 PM
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Wysten wrote:

Aye, but then again Sidious was not the sort of guy to fight at any sort of disadvantage, if he felt he was, he changed the circumstances to suit him. While he may have been able to kill his "powerless" master (Not sure where that came from, just probably something he threw in), it was possibly due to the fact if they both clashed, Sidious was aware that he possibly may fail. So he removed all probabity of himself losing by taking an advangerous situation.

Coward? Not really, again he did face down and defeat several Jedi Masters within seconds of eachother and probably could of easily killed off Mace in that space of time, just either Mace suddenly started paying attention, or Palp shifted down a gear to at least make the look closer. He even let Luke swing at him in the confort Vader would block him, even though they both despise eachother. He allowed himself to be placed on a Sepritist ship that could of easily ended in tragidy if Ani had failed to land the wreaked ship.

Just as far as I am conserned, Palp is not one to take risks often. He only placed himself in danger when he actually needed to. The fact he killed 3 masters in a incrediably brief time with one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in his pressence indicates that when he needs to, he can prove how strong he is.



Perhaps, the so called "Master" were too weak. When Sidious got the lightsaber till land infront the first master, nobody did anything. First guy down, no reaction. Second guy down, still no reaction. Then Kit Fisto went down, and Windu knew he need to block...there was like 5 second...(Darth Vader: Impressive...most impressive...)

Ok, i didn't read the book so i don't know what exactly happened in the book, but in the movie...man, are you kidding me? you call yourself a master? I 'm not expecting you'll win but comeon you just have to stand there and take a hit...(were is Jar Jar Binks? need his Draw Fire and Bombad Gungan NOW!!Scared )

Perhaps, i got the wrong idea about the power level of the force users from Novels (Darth Bane & Force Unleashed) amd video games (Force Unleashed).

Especailly, now when i rewatch The Clone Wars season one, Jedi can't do much without a lightsaber...where are the powerful Force Push, Force Repulse? HELLO??
I know the jedis aren't superman, but they can do better than that...

When Dooku, Obi and Anakin were captured by Hondo, they couldn't even use the force to open their handcuffs...Hello watch the movies RotS & RotJ...
zorc62
Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:51:33 AM
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Wysten wrote:
Aye, but then again Sidious was not the sort of guy to fight at any sort of disadvantage, if he felt he was, he changed the circumstances to suit him. While he may have been able to kill his "powerless" master (Not sure where that came from, just probably something he threw in), it was possibly due to the fact if they both clashed, Sidious was aware that he possibly may fail. So he removed all probabity of himself losing by taking an advangerous situation.

Coward? Not really, again he did face down and defeat several Jedi Masters within seconds of eachother and probably could of easily killed off Mace in that space of time, just either Mace suddenly started paying attention, or Palp shifted down a gear to at least make the look closer. He even let Luke swing at him in the confort Vader would block him, even though they both despise eachother. He allowed himself to be placed on a Sepritist ship that could of easily ended in tragidy if Ani had failed to land the wreaked ship.

Just as far as I am conserned, Palp is not one to take risks often. He only placed himself in danger when he actually needed to. The fact he killed 3 masters in a incrediably brief time with one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in his pressence indicates that when he needs to, he can prove how strong he is.


Keep in mind the Duel on Tython. With Zannah merely proving a distraction for the two Knights sent there (one of whom eventually switches to fighting Bane), Bane takes on two Masters (and later also one knight) who are being enhanced by battle meditation. In the end, it's a clear victory for Bane (except for the weakness of the orbalisks; keep in mind that it is made clear in Dynasty of Evil that Bane post-orbalisk was stronger than Bane with the orbalisks).

Seeing as two of the Masters Palpatine fought didn't even raise their guards, it's clear that Bane was facing better opponents. (I won't reiterate Evotrooper's statements, but I do agree that Palpatine fought some really weak Jedi).

Also, I don't really understand how killing his master in his sleep because he might die otherwise was not a cowardly act for Palpatine. For all we know, Plagueis was the strongest Sith ever (which would make sense considering each new Sith in the Rule of Two was stronger than the one before).
qvos
Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:03:14 AM
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Also, the whole goal of Bane's rule of two was the culmination of the destruction of the Jedi order. each Sith knew that his apprentice would best him in time, otherwise the Sith order would weaken.
Palpatine might have been the best to bring this fruition. To bring the ruin of the Jedi Order would take both a cunning Politician , Secrecy, and a skillful warrior. To set the plan in place, Palps assumed the mantle of Master of the Sith by Killing Plaguis expediently. After that, he could start his plans of his 1st apprentice, who would be a weapon,(Maul), But apparently Sid and Plaguis had already brought forth the child fathered by Midichlorians(Anakin). Before Plagues could see that experiment through, Palps killed him in his sleep.PALPS plan always was to make Anikan his apprentice. He then put his political plans in order to take advantage of a Jedi order that was ripe for a fall. He knew that the time was right for the fall of the Jedi order and he took advantage of it.
Ulic Qel-Droma
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:51:13 PM
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When it comes to lightsaber combat the Rule of Two really doesn't need to utilize it as much because the Sith can't take on the entire Jedi Order by simply wiping them out with lightsaber combat.

Bane began a tradition of using manipulation and subtlety to bring down the Order and it worked.

He obviously was a master practioner of lightsaber combat, but he was also devious and maniuplative and that's his legacy.

Sidious was the fulfillment of Bane's philosophy. He could take down Fisto and Kolar and Tiin, but he worked through others to advance his agenda.

He created the Republic Army, turned Anakin Skywalker, and altered the political landscape. That's what it took to bring down the Jedi.

Now, the Jedi and the Sith have never wiped each other out completely and that will never happen, but Bane began something that Sidious finished and they are both to be commended for it, but I don't see either one being greater than the other. Sidious woul not have been able to do what he did if not for Bane and Bane would not have been successful if not for Sidious.

They both needed each other and I think they are just the beginning and the end of an idea that was almost completely successful.
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