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Poll Question : How will you continue to play SWM?
Choice Votes Statistics
"as-is" with no changes 22 19.819819 %
"as-is" with special/house rules (non-DCI) 22 19.819819 %
using any new, "official" V-sets (Gamers) 50 45.045045 %
will not continue to play 7 6.306306 %
other (please elaborate) 10 9.009009 %

SWM: "your" future in the game Options
Comicsaurus
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:41:30 AM
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Joined: 3/18/2009
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I voted 'other' as I've been playing SWM{CE} with my son a lot more.

I'll also follow the V-Set, until it gets too convoluted (if it gets too convoluted).
tx3252
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:27:06 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/30/2008
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swinefeld wrote:
I like "with all options on the table" - BlooMilk wampafang

The more choices, the better. We have been taking a break from playing DCI at my LGS and have been having a really great time. Just barely scratching the surface with alternate formats and such.

The V-sets will provide another interesting option if they are done well, and I expect they will be quite good.

It's all cool, until I have a clear reason to feel otherwise.


I feel pretty much the same way.
Darth Kaotik
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:39:45 AM
Rank: Uggernaught
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Joined: 4/15/2010
Posts: 34
As is.
Not interested in playing with some designers idea of how this game should have played.
As is.
qvos
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:31:45 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
Virtual sets look pretty cool to me. Of course I'll continue to play for as long as I can.
njarnagin
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:16:49 PM
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I'll go with V-sets. Love'em or Hate'em, it's the best shot at keeping the game alive.
Crashh Niner
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:33:27 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 3/24/2010
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I'm gonna keep playing the way I learned the game. . . . before I knew there were rules ThumbsUp hahah
TheStarkiller
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:14:15 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 10/3/2008
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I will definitely look at the v-sets. Just like I look at all of the other fan-made characters.
I will always keep them separate from my official collection and to me it will always be 2 separate games.
We have yet to see if the virtual sets make the game better or not.
Gurneywars
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:36:19 PM
Rank: Dark Trooper Phase III
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Joined: 11/5/2009
Posts: 25
Well I chose the last answer as other.

Here is my elaboration.

1st I will play as is
2nd I will play with house rules and no Dci
3rd I will play with Dci
4th I will try out the V-sets
5th I will use any and all variation type games I can.
this may include any I made up or someone else's that looks like fun. Check out the link at WotC then go down to post 17 by 501st, which is me, there will be some scenarios and game variations you can try.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19453510
/Important_Threads_and_Links_Index

6th I will try out various mass battle type rules and use the minis in them.
7th i will use them for RPG
8th I will use them to display scenarios on various shelves or furniture to add some character to the room.
9th I will use them like army men with my nephews and I will teach the game to the older ones.
10th I will use them for Dejarik. here is a link at Gamers if you have an account.
http://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8916

There are a few versions of d20 rules by Don and myself that can be tried out.

and another link at WotC by Don that doesn't have my add ons
but also has the d6 rules

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/23129681/My_dejarik_dice_rules,_%28they_work%29
Wysten
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 7:16:25 PM
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Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 390
My main future is with friends really, as there is no Star Wars mini's groups locally aside from them.

Currently plotting a 600 point game with one person controlling 200 points each. Hopefully I can get that mos elisy map so I can have a massive game.

Thus far not kept that close track on the V sets, to be honest I don't have that great a connection with the EU to really add anything aside what should bulk out the verious armies a bit more. Transports e.c.t
Mandalorien
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 7:22:37 PM
Rank: Republic Commando
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Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 16
Location: France
I'll play using homebrew and any creation/idea from other people I'd find interesting.

No offense, but I don't like the way V-sets are annouced here.
The word "official" has definitely not is place describing any upcoming creation.

Yes, I noticed the quotation marks but why just don't say "V-Sets" ?

Everybody's creation will be his "official" creation... and un-official related to the original WotC game.

billiv15
Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:57:44 PM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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Mandalorien wrote:
I'll play using homebrew and any creation/idea from other people I'd find interesting.

No offense, but I don't like the way V-sets are annouced here.
The word "official" has definitely not is place describing any upcoming creation.

Yes, I noticed the quotation marks but why just don't say "V-Sets" ?

Everybody's creation will be his "official" creation... and un-official related to the original WotC game.



They are using it to refer to the Gamer's V-sets. Which as of May, Gamers will be the only rating site (DCI is gone, and we are building a rating and submission program which will use the DCI ratings and continue to track it for those who want it). Gamers is also in charge of writing the official tournament rules, and running tournaments from here on out. Now, just like always, you could use DCI or not, that's up to you as a TO. But if you use "DCI" after May, you will be using "Gamers" more or less.

And Gamers is the group making the V-sets that some people call "official". They will be tournament legal, as will some custom maps as well going forward. We are a ways away from most of that, but that's what they are referring to here, not every random posters custom figures - those designed by the Gamers group.
Mickey
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 12:16:06 AM
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I want to start off by saying I'm not looking to pick a fight with you Bill as that seems to be the way our forum banter takes. I just have a couple comments and questions and looking for some simple civil answers.

I guess my biggest problem up to this point is how the the same day the game end was announced Dean went on to post here and elsewhere that Gamers would take up the torch to carry the game onward for everyone. I want to say I do support carrying onward with the game and that many of the players working on the continuation probably are the best for the job but at what point did any of those people there get "elected" by the SWM community to accept that job for all of us? If the tables had been turned and Shinja and the group of mods here had gone and posted that same comment everywhere how would the Gamers group have reacted? I just feel there should have been more democracy and less imperialism in taking the reigns over for running the game. If Gamers really was concerned about uniting the SWM community there would have been more involvement from everyone as a whole rather than telling everyone to goto Gamers if they want to be involved. Why not place polls and threads here and at Gamers and anywhere else that SWM players hang out requesting opinions and views on how to proceed? I also think if people wanted to be a part of the committee from the start then there should have been a request to the community seeking volunteers. If there was one then I apologize because I missed it. I'm not saying I wanted to volunteer because I'd much rather play the game than be a part of running rules and such. However, I do get concerned over how the game changes and like to at least follow it.

When the next floor rules are put out how will that take place? Before Dean came up with the outline of rule changes and passed them on up the chain. From what I understand that went through alot of hands before becoming official. What will the process be now? Will the community be involved in voting on changes or will they just be given to us?

On the v-sets, I just feel like things are being rushed. We just had our last official release 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure of the ETA on the v-set but it just seems like it is coming very fast to me. Will there be alot of playtesting to see how the new pieces affect the whole of the game and not just how well the piece is? I know my biggest concern is that there is going to be a power creep. Our last couple of official sets did not have power creep in my opinion. But when you start replacing old pieces that most feel are weak and replace that piece with a more useuable piece then that sounds like there is a big chance for power creep. That is one of my biggest concerns that pushes me away from the v-set. I'm afraid that it will change the game I love to play in a dramatic way.

I hope I no way was insulting in my post. There is no intent like that in my words. I just have questions and concerns and would like some answers if someone has the time to answer them.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 12:26:54 AM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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Good comments, I'll get back to answer them later this afternoon when I have time.
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 12:54:18 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
The original SWCCG PC was hand picked by decipher, sort of how Dean kind of was already, since he is essentially continuing his job, just without WOTC oversight, which likely makes his job easier.
Mickey
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 1:07:17 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/9/2009
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Location: Southern Illinois
With WOTC out of the way everything will be easier for us as a community to change things. But we must work together as a community to do it. Just because someone was left in a position when a company dropped us does not mean that that single person will/should be in total control. I just think that this community as a whole needs to pull together and elect a core of people to run things ie make final decisions based off of feedback from the player base. I'm sure many of the same players running things will be back in those positions but it will be done in a democratic way for the community to be involved in the process of electing its leaders. I don't have all the answers but at this point in time I feel powerless as a player to how the course of the game is heading.

I just think at this time we as a community can take advantage of WOTC leaving the game for the players to make changes people have wanted for a long time. Changes in floor rules/errata. Some specifics off the top of my head was stuff like savage being able to attack diplomats, acceleration working in combination with strafe. Maybe look at some house rules people use that might help the game. Instead of creating a new uggie demo in a v-set why not add in the rule Squid posted on lightsabers replacing attacks to destroy a door or someone using a force point at range 6 to destroy a door. Little changes like that can help solve some problems on pieces people lack in their collections rather than trying to come up with figures for a v-set. I just think at this time concentration of efforts on improving the game is much better than working on a v-set that doesn't have full support of the community and is dividing us.

The game is in our hands now as players. For us to compete on a national level we need to be together on our universal rules (DCI). We can't keep dividing over power struggles and petty problems.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 1:22:34 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 5/8/2008
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I believe the players/members of Gamers that are involved in the continuation of the SWM game have the experience to do so. They definitely have my backing.

And as Sithborg stated, Dean was already officially writing the DCI floor rules for WOTC. Kinda puts him right where he needed to be to continue on with it no? ;)

Also, please read Shinja's last comment in this thread:
The Future is Bloo...
trappedslider
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 2:28:13 AM
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Joined: 12/4/2008
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Location: Roswell,new mexico
Mickey wrote:
Why not place polls and threads here and at Gamers and anywhere else that SWM players hang out requesting opinions and views on how to proceed? I also think if people wanted to be a part of the committee from the start then there should have been a request to the community seeking volunteers. If there was one then I apologize because I missed it. I'm not saying I wanted to volunteer because I'd much rather play the game than be a part of running rules and such. However, I do get concerned over how the game changes and like to at least follow it.


I think I can slightly offer a part of an explination atleast from my point of view which may well be inccorect, with something this big its easier to have all of the info at one centeral location instead of it being spread out.
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 3:35:24 AM
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I don't think a request was needed. If I remember correctly, Dean got massed PM'ed from people willing to help.

And I'm going to be quite honest, changing the WOTC rules just doesn't sit well. Yes there are odd interactions, but it was how the game was designed. The rulebook is the bible, and adding new stuff outside of the cards, just seem right.
njarnagin
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 3:59:38 AM
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Mickey wrote:
I just feel there should have been more democracy and less imperialism in taking the reigns over for running the game. If Gamers really was concerned about uniting the SWM community there would have been more involvement from everyone as a whole rather than telling everyone to goto Gamers if they want to be involved. Why not place polls and threads here and at Gamers and anywhere else that SWM players hang out requesting opinions and views on how to proceed?


Just a quick though: I think the "democratic process" maybe be slightly overrated in this case. Dean/Gamers has earned the right to lead the V-Sets/tournament play/etc. I think a major issue for the player committee is reliability, especially for Dean who has the responsibility of overseeing this thing. I would rather see Dean choose reliable competent people than a democratic process which chooses fan favorites, especially at the initial stages of the community based effort. Now at some point, perhaps a democratic element to the process should be considered.
swinefeld
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:49:16 AM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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Sithborg wrote:

And I'm going to be quite honest, changing the WOTC rules just doesn't sit well. Yes there are odd interactions, but it was how the game was designed. The rulebook is the bible, and adding new stuff outside of the cards, just [doesn't] seem right.


[my edit above]

I understand that this seems to be the general sentiment among the committee and a number of others, but I don't entirely agree with it. I haven't seen anyone suggesting any earth-shattering changes to the basic rules of the game at this point. We already have tournament rules, (gambit, match scoring, maps, SSM etc) and making a few other small, well thought out changes there harms nothing, IMO.

THE rulebook as it stands can be used as is by anyone who wishes to (outside of organized play) for casual play, and they can use house rules as they see fit. It has always been that way. It's not as though people are suggesting that WotC's rulebooks all be piled up and burned and just start over. Razz

There are plenty of ideas that would call for new cards for old minis, but some are as simple as a line or two added to the tournament (floor) rules, and there is already precedent there.

Jedi opening/destroying a doors using a FP. I fail to see how something like this would make the tournament game less fair or fun than it is now. More likely - the opposite would be the case.

I do note that a change like this is more significant than say editing Thrawn/Xizor's Bodyguard to allow either version of those characters, but it is easy enough to understand, it fits with the stories we know, it wouldn't unbalance the game any more than triple/quad override already does, and it is something that should/could/would apply to a huge number of characters - far, far more than is feasible to deal with via new cards. It's just not that big of a leap to take, IMHO.

That said, I intend to give the player-run game a fair chance no matter what direction it takes. BlooMilk
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