I just got done listening to last nights SHNN show and they talked about the Yun Ne'Shel Priest briefly towards the end of the show. I thought they addressed some of the issues pretty well, and hopefully they can talk about it more in depth next week as they mentioned they were going to talk more about the meta.

Just wanted to point out that in the show they mentioned melee squads are going to nullify Zenoc Quah's effectiveness. I agree to a certain extent, but I want to draw attention to the fact that most good melee squads are based around force users. There are only a few good melee threats that aren't force users, Embo being one of them as an example. The problem is, that even though a Jedi/Sith squad doesn't have to worry about the Evade saves of 7, they do need to worry about what Zenoc quah can also do that is un-disruptable. Zenoc Quah has Speicialization that grants Jedi Hatred +10 to all Vong Allies, so that combined with her Shaper +10 makes her still quite effective vs a majority of melee squads out there. In a few of my squads with Quorreal, I can choose if i want to or not want to have the Specialization work (for example in my game vs Thereisnotry, i choose to bring in 2 Zenoma Sekot scouts since he didn't have any force users). Specialization can also come into effect at any point in the game, so even if you are running a swarm of Domain Lah warriors, it can kick in latter on after you've painstakingly chewed through their VCA with the save 7's. I mentioned this earlier that pieces were costed how they were based on how good their VCA is in addition to other factors. A domain Lah warrior normally could be taken down quite easily, as the armor will only be effective 50% of the time, but with essentially VCA 7 they now become a lot more tougher to take down as quickly. Chazrach cost 10pts, can charge 12 squares and have VCA 11. Now that 50HP becomes really hard to chew through, even if you are doing 30dmg shots. Basically it is a very good chance that you will need to land 3 seperate 30dmg shots to take down a Chazrach where as before it was probably 2 you needed. Chazrach swarms aren't as huge of a problem as other vong swarms are however because they don't have force Immunity and they don't have twin attack, but you can boost them up quite well and they survive longer than Domain Lah warriors vs shooter squads/non-jedi melee squads. Domain Lah warriors also need a commander to make them have charging Fire, Chazrachs have it built in. I wonder if people are going to choose to run Yuuzhan Vong Elite Warrior in swarms because they also have 50hp but have twin attack and also Force Immunity and don't have to worry about Slave.

anyways, I just wanted to thank the guys on SHNN for bringing up the Yun Ne'Shel priest on the show last night. It is very telling that one of the guys talking was very worried about the Vong priest and Juice Man's squad that was at Frostycon could have easily beaten Darth Jim's Talon squad. The players on the show had a ton of respect for that Vong squad and I hope they can get Juice Man (who ran it) on next week to talk about that squad.

He played against me, and it was a VERY tight game. If he could've gotten to Scorch (to remove Shields) I would've lost almost for sure. Or even Niner (losing the Squad Firepower would've been bad). As it was, I lost Sev right away, which greatly reduced my damage output in that match. Joe and I talked about the match afterward, and we agreed on a few changes to the squad (using the Priest for added save power, which he didn't) and his tactics (charging all the guys in at once, rather than 1 or 2 per round), both of which would've made a big difference. He definitely opened my eyes to the competitive power that the Vong have now.

But I agree, that we surely do need more results than from just 1 player in 1 tournament.

That's a major issue of peaceful city. You can sit well outside of gambit and barrage every square of gambit.

I gotta see a lot of sudden domination like Daala with this Vong build before I worry even a bit. I can't be concerned about a squad I may never even play in a Regional or GenCon.

The squads that you mentioned are indeed really good, but any grenades, missiles, atatl attacks require a save of 11. for the Vong that save of 11 becomes needing a save of 7. it is essentially the same as having Evade on a 7. Direct damage from things like Flamethrowers are all well and good, but none do the damage nessesary to get past all the hp and the VCA that absorbs 10dmg from those. Anything that requires a save is going to give the Vong a +4. Vong are really strong when they are adjacent to their targets, cause they do tons of damage. Usually the higher HP peices in the this game are melee, not shooters, so it becomes a disadvantage for the shooters to be forced to deal with Vong adjacent to them. Suppresive Fire, Snare Rifle, Brutal Strike/Overwhelming power are all really good vs the Vong so maybe we will see a shift in the meta towards squads that run these options in their squads.

Sometimes debating the effects of a piece on a factions balance can come off as an attack on a designer or playtester. I just want to emphasize again like I did in my first post that this is nothing of the sort. I have a lot of respect for the designers of this game and I hope everyone else does also. I think discussions like this are good for the game, and it is a testament to this community that people haven't resorted to personal attacks on people or their ideas. I am sorry if some of what has been posted here by me has come across as some sort of indictment against someone, or as some kind of attack. I want the Vong to be good! I hope that they do well this year in regionals and even do well in Gencon. I for sure am planning to play them. The Ne'Shel priest is a power 11+ peice, and maybe that is what they needed to get people to play them. So if that leads to more people playing the faction, that can only be a good thing, imo.

I vote for the wait and see how bad it actually is tactic. The team brought to our regional last year would not have benefited from this priest at all (cloaked blast bug scout team) and almost won the tournament if by for my reserves team bringing in strafers. This will add some diversity to Vong builds and hopefully finally make people start playing them more. Let time tell if it's broken or not.

There were questions about Bastila with ABM. The answer, see what happens.

There were questions about Mace Windu Light aka Critdu. The answer, see what happens.

There might have been questions about the Yammosk and Atris, don't remember. Bet the answer to any of those would have been, well, you know.

Think Dalaa was missed until she tore up New Zealand. That got solved, eventually.

Maybe this save on a 7 is too strong, maybe not.

lol, this is funny.

Bastilla-wait and she, she won gencon---- then they made stuff like disciplined leader, hand signals, fringe with yslamari.

mace---- won gencon, followed by a HUGE increase in makashi/parry to try and make critdu not so good.

Daala---- also took the wait and see and it came in second place at gencon and dominated New Zealand completely. only reason it was changed was because it had to be, because there were no real good answers to counter it without changing it.

so once again lets just wait and see lol. I love it.

Save 15 and 16 is annoying to, but we would never errata any piece that makes that possible. I love insults, speaking of which, if I don't know who you are competitively your opinion loses credence. Do you even play? Comment only? I love hit and run comments by people that no longer/rarely/competitively play SWM. If you tell me times change and you have different commitments...cool, but don't act like you're the first person to have any of those same commitments. If you wanted to play, you would. Also, where were you when playtesters were needed for this set and any other set for that matter? If you don't help, pipe down. It's like not voting and complaining ad nauseum about the winning candidate.

@ scruffyhan...thanks as well for you community policing! Where would the game be without your comments?