This is a good point, some of us who play the Legacy format (myself included) do not play standard often anymore. I know a lot of them signed up for the NZ regional, I did not, but not out of lack of desire to play it I assure you:

I don't speak for everyone here, but PERSONALLY, my problem is not with finding time to play standard, it's finding time to play AT ALL these days, whether it be in person (once this year, period, with the ONE guy who I can play with locally), or on vassal (not counting the handful of Legacy tournament/league games, I've can count on one hand the amount of standard OR legacy games I've played and/or tested this year . That being with my obligation to test for the Legacy format for which I was a DESIGNER, which was a major reason I wasn't able to design on the 2nd round of sets), I just don't get to play very often anymore. There are no competitive events in person around here anymore, and Baseball always runs through Gen Con for me, ever since I discovered this game a few years ago (I unfortunately missed it's hey-day).

I used to love it when I could play a game almost every afternoon and/or night with guys like Spryguy or theUltraStar, my neighbor, a buddy I introduced to v-sets from France... I could have played even MORE often if the CPU didn't always restart itself without me having the password. I just have so much more on my plate between beginning dual-enrollment, looking into College, more sports, more family events for all my brothers... I have friends who'd like me to play (sorry, Spryguy ) a lot more often, but schedule differences and (for the most part, on me) lack of time to play just haven't allowed it. I SHOULD have some time clearing up soon so I can play either format more often, for a couple months at least.

That said, I certainly do NOT want the standard game to go away at all, and am quite excited about how Ani/Obi could affect the meta. I obviously am still in the business of dealing the miniatures at cheap prices to raise some funds for my first vehicle while hopefully allowing people to buy more minis than they otherwise could (and actually I'm in the process of sorting my BIGGEST addition to my collection EVER, which will go on pretty soon now, and also allowed me to get briefly acquainted with Chris Dionne, the awesome fella who sold me the items and clearly was in it for a LONG time before I was ever around!), I was the first to donate to set-9 (and got a nifty prize, thanks ). I will of course donate for set-10 as well if I can, even though I don't get to play much anymore, and Mr. Francella allowed me to donate for a map pack and me give it back for someone else who needs it, as I only play once in a blue moon and me and my friends have DOZENS of as-yet untried maps. I don't contribute as much to the forums or customs as I used to, but I like to when possible.

Anyway, my apologies for the LOOONNNNNGGG rant-ish post. I just wanted to say that in my case, and I think in several others, time restraints have really hit my game-time hard, and in my case this really was going on long before Legacy format was even born (Spry and some others got me in on a bunch of tests on set 7 or 8 I believe, but as I mentioned I was not able to get in but one this time, then I was alerted that I was too late, which was nobody's fault of course except my own). Due to me being a designer on Legacy, and the fact that it's fast pace (especially since I almost only play Vassal) and as of right now lower amount of pieces to keep up with and how I personally like to play dark side Force users, that's where most of my time goes when I get it. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy standard or that I want it to die, quite the contrary

While like with anything, I don't want to pretend Legacy is absolutely perfect or for everybody, I definitely stand behind the entire general idea of it and find it quite fun to play myself. That does not change that I still love star wars miniatures in general and enjoy standard format when I can play it as well

Sorry did not see this one. I feel your post is pretty umm aggressive, so my response might feel aggressive but that is only because i am disputing your points.

Lou's concerns were not listened to at all. Someone brought up Obi/Ani. thats not really hitting the mark. Once again, the same treatment: this is what we are doing to fix the problem, here are some other examples of melee being playable, its not a real problem because this and that were regional finalists or whatever, lord krayt is melee... The same kind of stuff that has been said for a long long time.
Also, Obi/Ani does not make melee playable, it makes obi/ani playable. and the couple of variants that can go with him to be competitive. It makes ONE army style playable, that is a FAR cry from making melee playable. (not trying to be combative here just stating thoughts) I think everyone (myself included as i have stated before) understands that Obi/Ani is a great first step and can lead the charge towards melee being playable. right now, i don't think its enough, but time will tell.
Also, Lou had other concerns as well.

On re-reading, this really stood out to me.

What kind of response would you have been happy with? Everyone saying "Oh Lou, you're so right, this game sucks!"? He presented a problem, plenty of people commiserated, and plenty of people gave their opinion on the problem. Why is it a big problem that some peoples opinion was that the problem was already being fixed, or it isn't a huge problem?

I honestly have no idea what would have been a response that made you happy other than just everybody agreeing that the game sucks and there is no fixing it. Agreeing that there is a problem and talking about what is being done to fix it is apparently just ignoring the complaint entirely, since you said that "this is what we are doing to fix the problem" is "the same treatment" and that it means his complaints "fell on deaf ears".



Edited to add, because I keep thinking of more: Lou's post was specifically asking for people to help him see why the game isn't as bad as what he said. He wanted people to "talk him down from the ledge", to use his phrase. So saying "this is what we are doing to fix the problem", "here are some examples of melee being playable", giving examples of regional finalists that fit his playstyle, and so on were exactly what he asked for. Literally no post in that thread answered Lou's original post more than the ones that said these things.

You should look at it like a serious issue, because it is. Glad that is happening. From the way things look on bloomilk's forum it isn't taken as a serious issue. I dont see the behind the scenes. If vset designer's came out and said. "you know what? your right, we screwed up, lets fix it, help us if you can, throw some suggestions are way. we have started to fix it with obi/ani but know that we will need more." that tiny bit of humility would go a long way for people. Humility is always more effective than pride.
ya, it did have lots of suggestions, a lot of them were my own. Doesn't mean they were listened to, at all. Once again, confirmation of these things is essential.


I can be convinced, but nothing on the forums I have seen is convincing. transparency can go a long way as well.
I wonder why that is daniel? probably because it is a problem for a lot of people.
Geez man, literally it takes all this just to get it across and that is the problem. Its like my 4 year old son. I have a conversation with him about why painting with toothpaste is a bad idea. Next morning he does it again, another conversation, another "ok dad" next morning he does it again and now I raise my voice out of frustration and take his snack time away for the day and sit him in time out. Next morning, no toothpaste on the wall.

Here is a point I am trying to make, try listening please:
There is a problem with how complaints/comments/posts that are referencing gaming experience/pieces/rules in a negative way are received and processed. That problem is seen by a group of people who think they know exactly about the game making statements that directly go against what the person is saying, after that four or five more of those people back up the statement made. Which, in turn, smothers the topic.

If it is a one piece meta shifter than that is a great step. What mostly happens with one piece meta shifters is a bubble occurs and you have to fix the bubble somehow, in the meantime it is not as fun in a different way. Disciplined leader after Bastila, shooters after Mace, Obi/kin after shooters, etc.

This would have been great.

"Lou, I am on the design team and I am sorry you have not been having fun playing the game we are designing. We want everyone to have a great time, while we cant help everyone with every detail, we understand that a lot of people feel the same way you do about melee pieces and NPE's that are results from abusing rules or a few pieces.
If you can give us some ideas about how best to go about balancing melee and limiting some of these NPE's we can discuss them and get to work right away and hopefully make it fun again for you. We would hate to lose you."

I never said the game sucks. I said right now it is not fun for me and lots of people. I also presented many many ideas of how I think it can be balanced (as in that it can be fixed).
Saying this is what we are doing to fix the problem and than following up with, well its not really a problem because look at this army that did well, and look at this army that made it to the final four, there are melee armies being played is not a sound way to admitting that there is actually a problem. It can be compared to someone saying "sorry, but you....."
sure the sorry is there, but it doesnt really hold water with the after thoughts.



funny how after those things were said Lou responded in kind about how they were not actually helpful.

So if 5 different people post the same general idea it's not constructive, but.....



If the same person posts the same thing 5 times it's helpful?

+1

That's a great idea!

I am in full agreeance with you that community pushing decisions is not the way to go. What I was saying on the other thread is that I think the V-set designers should come up with what constitutes a balance in the game and than work towards that end and since they know what they are doing they will get it done. They can also get this done without slipping in some things that are not pushing the goal of the set. This is not just melee pieces this can be done by awarding shooter bonuses for being close or adjacent, etc.

I also said that I think that for every set the design team can come out and say (transparency ) "We have been discussing what peoples concerns are with the game, and we have talked with a lot of people, This set is fully focused on those concerns. for example, this set is fully being used to open up melee squads.
They should also have guidelines and rules for not letting someone who is aggressive steam roll something into the set. The community can know those rules. it gives stability and direction.

+1!