I just think it's a big coincidence that Bastila and Mace won GenCon the years that they were controversial. They each only won a couple of Regionals, despite being popular. And Mace was mainly good in partnership with GOWK, after Soresu was reinstated.

I actually honestly enjoy both of those pieces, and don't have a problem with them.

Daala and Zygerrian were actually overpowered before they were toned down before Regional season, and we had a lot of data in New Zealand (two tournaments won and dominating a third) before we even red flagged it as an issue. The second toning down was good, but it was minor compared to the first, and mainly affected the Snow Troopers.

OK so maybe the instances I gave weren't the best ways to deal with this as I don't play Vong either for or against very often, but I still think that more parity in the game/meta isn't a bad thing as it gives people more options to play. I am still of the opinion that Daala may have been hit to hard with the nerf stick, as I don't think most people will chose to run her competitively anymore. I do agree that she was really powerful and maybe warranted some changes, but I also think that she was the new kid on the block that was getting all the attention last year and that if less had been done she would prob. still see use sometimes but not nearly as much once the newness had worn off. Similarly, I feel like do to the recent improvements the Vong have gotten, I fully expect to see a marked upswing in their table time this year but I feel like a year from now we'll be having a discussion similar to this one about some other hot new piece that has just released like we have a history of doing going back as far as the wizards days as countrydude pointed out. I for one enjoy that part of the game (playing new and even challenging to beat pieces and figuring out how to win against them), so in my mind, more variety in squad choice and parity among the factions is a good thing and I feel like our design team is trying to give us that, and as ACEACE stated more help in the playtesting dept. is never a bad thing so please feel free to get involved as I can tell you that as a playtester you do have the chance to make suggestions and give input to the process.

I think we all agree that Bastila, Mace, and Daala could have been made a little less powerful and still been good and playable, and a bit less of an NPE. Bastila starting with 1 fewer force, Mace without Force Absorb or MotF2. Those minor changes would've helped, I think, but not that big of a deal. Daala/Zygerrian/Snowtrooper has been errata'ed down to where everyone seems to want them. (Recognizing that NPE is in the eye of the beholder... I've gotten used to Bastila and Mace, and I liked playing Daala, even though most people think she's an NPE.)



For my thoughts on the Vong... first, here are a couple threads for some background:
Great Rock Paper Scissors Thread
Rock Paper Scissors Theory

In the "Great Rock Paper Scissors Thread", I didn't talk about rock-paper-scissors and Force Immunity, but it deserves its own section. (I may go back and add one if I get a chance.) Consider 3 squad types: Force Immunity, Force-using, No Force Users. All things being equal, the Force users and non-Force users should be pretty even, in theory. But Force Immunity will have an advantage over Force-users. Therefore, non-force users should have an advantage over a Force Immunity squad.

For Ysalamiri-type Force Immunity, the 'advantage' the non-force users get is just that the Force Immunity squad wasted some points by including Pellaeon or Talon, and part of those points go to waste if there aren't any Force users to suppress. For Vong, the whole squad has Force Immunity. This is extreme Force-user hate, and that Force Immunity should be part of the cost of every Vong character. In that sense, a non-force using squad should have a compounded advantage over a Vong squad. When a squad has a strong advantage over one class of squads, it should have a similar strong disadvantage versus another squad type. (Discussed in more detail the Rock Paper Scissors Theory thread above.) For the Vong, the disadvantage has traditionally been shooters. Evade on a 7 means Vong don't have that strong disadvantage anymore. This is the primary concern to me. It's not that Vong suddenly have a chance against shooters or that they can win a regional or GenCon. That's great. (And in fact they already won 2 regionals last year before the Priest showed up, in case everyone forgot.) The issue is that Vong no longer have an unfavorable match-up as strong as their favorable match-up versus a Force-dependent squad.

Jonny talked about the Priest having no counter. Almost everything has a counter... CEs countered by Disruptive countered by Disciplined Leader. Attacks countered by Parry countered by Overwhelming Power. Cloaked countered by "ignoring cover" abilities. Self Destruct used to have no counter but now there is Defuse Bomb. Force powers countered by Force Immunity... period. If Vong are present in greater numbers, and Talon/Pellaeon are already popular (they are), Force users (as a squad type) are pretty much done. You might throw one in as melee interference, but you can't field a squad of all Jedi like you can field a squad of all shooters. I don't expect that Vong will dominate even with the Priest. It's not broken like Daala was. But I do expect that its presence will make the meta all shooters versus Vong... Vong will chase Jedi out of the meta.

Funny - it's kind of like the movies. With Talon, Pellaeon, and the Vong... Jedi* will be as rare on the SWM tables as they are in Episode IV.

* By Jedi, I mean Force-users who rely on Force powers. A piece like Yobuck has Force but he hardly needs to affect enemies with his Force powers. He'll be fine.

+1

I play Jedi squads a lot also in addition to Vong squads, so if we can get the Jedi to be good again, that would be great!

you know what is missing from this list.....
any type of jedi squad hahaha.

I agree with your top squad list. I don't know how they would do overall but some OR builds could give Vong fits. Green Jedi or a Wookiee Elite Warrior (Sweep & Twin) or a Mirialan Jedi Knight with Bastila could take out some Lah Warriors. Bastila with Zann Consortium Droideka could stand up to the vong too right? http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/143124/bao-durs-shan-zann-droidekas

Daala scout trooper squad is still viable but both Daala and Bastila are more match-up dependent than ever before.
Which does make the field more favorable for Thrawn. Old black-n-blue Lord Vader has answers for Domain Lah Warriors too.
Rebels, have plenty of access to disruption and Tantives are still good. The new Han Solo (disruptive) could help NR as well.
Also, I still think it's possible we could see a tier 1 Black Sun squad on the horizon.