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TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, May 4, 2015 8:32:11 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
spryguy1981 wrote:

As far as changes and making the game fun again, the only real things I will probably continuously say until I am blue in the face is that nerfing tempo control


Quote:

29/45

Aves, Communications Officer
Fringe
Cost 34

HP 70
Def 18
Att +8
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Mobile Attack; Evade

Advanced Warning [If this character has line of sight to an enemy, Unique allies gain Relay Orders.]

Disciplined Leader [This character's commander effect cannot be suppressed]

Jam Transmission [At the end of this character's turn, choose 1 enemy commander effect. Until the end of the round, the chosen commander effect is suppressed farther than 6 squares from that commander or its allies with Relay Orders.]

Rapport [This character costs 5 less when in the same squad as a character whose name contains Talon Karrde]

Relay Orders [Each allied commander can count distance from this character as well as from itself for the purpose of commander effects]

Willing to Serve [Counts as a follower for purposes of allied commander effects]

Commander Effect
Usable when your squad contains only Fringe characters: If this character is unactivated at the start of an opponent's phase, you may force that player to activate 2 characters that phase (including the first phase of the round), suppressing enemy commander effects that alter the number of activations per phase.

Trusted by Karrde because he had the trust of the crew, Aves was never very far from the smuggler chief.

leshippy
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 9:00:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
From the SHNN last night

13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master -- SMALL BASE
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: Can move 6 extra squares on her turn as part of her move]

Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4, and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.


"She embraced and, eventually, achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell
CorellianComedian
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:06:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 1,055
leshippy wrote:
From the SHNN last night

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.

―Even Piell


Woot
Mando
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:20:13 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 1,410
Location: Chokio, MN
CorellianComedian wrote:
leshippy wrote:
From the SHNN last night

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.

―Even Piell


Woot


And the really cool things about this CE is that its effects are immune to Distraction, Disruptive and ABM. Since it specifies that they gain these things for the rest of the game, they will never loose them once the figures that benefit from the CE get them at the beginning of the skirmish. A really well made CE and it took a while to get it right, but after a lot of playtesting, I think this CE is what teh older CS needed to become playable. Shien Style is on par with SSM as far as anit-shooter. So those Shooter squads are going to have some real problems. ThumpUp
surf_rider56
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:33:05 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 1,740
Location: Orange County, CA
leshippy wrote:
From the SHNN last night

13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master -- SMALL BASE
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: Can move 6 extra squares on her turn as part of her move]

Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4, and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.


Very interesting piece. I normally keep my mouth shut but even I've got to say bravo on this one. The commander effect, if I understand rules at all, affect

Coleman Trebor
Jax Pavan
Barriss Offee
The Dark Woman
Stass Allie
Shaak Ti
Saesee Tiin
Plo Koon
Agen Kolar
Agen Kolar, Jedi Master

Many of these previously and relatively useless pieces suddenly become much more viable; I especially think Agen, JM becomes quite interesting and even Plo, Stass and Shaak become useable in some form.
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:40:49 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
ThumbsUp
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:41:10 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
You missed the commanders: Ki Adi Mundi, Aayla Secura, Etain Tur-Mukan, Kit Fisto.
obiwan1knight
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:44:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/14/2011
Posts: 150
Location: Voss
Yaddle is amazing! I have a question though, If one of the jedi benefiting from her CE gains extra attack, does her CE still work? I'd think so because Extra is not on the list in the CE, but I would like to be sure.
surf_rider56
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:45:23 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 1,740
Location: Orange County, CA
FlyingArrow wrote:
You missed the commanders: Ki Adi Mundi, Aayla Secura, Etain Tur-Mukan, Kit Fisto.


Fundamental question; I thought 1 commander couldn't help another ....
CorellianComedian
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:48:18 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 1,055
surf_rider56 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
You missed the commanders: Ki Adi Mundi, Aayla Secura, Etain Tur-Mukan, Kit Fisto.


Fundamental question; I thought 1 commander couldn't help another ....


Only if the Commander Effect specifies 'Followers.' 'Allies' applies to all allied characters, Commander Effect or not.
surf_rider56
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 11:51:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 1,740
Location: Orange County, CA
CorellianComedian wrote:
surf_rider56 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
You missed the commanders: Ki Adi Mundi, Aayla Secura, Etain Tur-Mukan, Kit Fisto.


Fundamental question; I thought 1 commander couldn't help another ....


Only if the Commander Effect specifies 'Followers.' 'Allies' applies to all allied characters, Commander Effect or not.



... and that's what happens when you've been grading essay's all day long; your eyes cross and you can't remember left from right (or followers vs allies.)
SithBot
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 12:06:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/1/2014
Posts: 192
leshippy wrote:
From the SHNN last night

13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master -- SMALL BASE
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: Can move 6 extra squares on her turn as part of her move]

Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4, and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.


"She embraced and, eventually, achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



Force Sacrifice should have a range. so she can literally be 24 squares away and through 4 doors in her starting area and do this?

droidadmiral
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 12:10:59 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 172
leshippy wrote:
From the SHNN last night

13/45

Yaddle, Jedi Master -- SMALL BASE
Republic
Cost 44

HP 90
Def 21
Att +11
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack

Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 2; Master of the Force 2

Force Sacrifice [Force 3, usable on an enemy's turn whenever this character or an ally would take damage: For the rest of the turn, no character in your squad can have its Hit Points reduced below 10. At the end of the turn, this character is defeated.]

Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks]

Master Speed [Force 1: Can move 6 extra squares on her turn as part of her move]

Morichro [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; Target enemy gets -4 Attack, gains Speed 4, and cannot make attacks of opportunity until the end of this character's next turn, or until she is defeated]

Commander Effect
For the rest of the skirmish, Unique Republic allies with a lightsaber and without Double, Triple, Quadruple, or Twin Attack, gain Shien Style, Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Assault, and Master Speed.


"She embraced and, eventually, achieved unity with the Force."
―Even Piell



while i like the design of this character, i am kind of at a loss about if i would actually run her. i think she would have been better suited with less and a cheaper cost.
AndyHatton
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 2:59:09 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
She is most likely that cost to avoid Jorus weirdness, she has some good force powers on her, and sharing them probably isn't great (especially Sacrifice)

Just what I quickly pulled together for her
--Better Jedi--
44 Yaddle
28 Plo Koon
26 Saesee Tiin
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
24 Shaak Ti
21 The Dark Woman
14 Coleman Trebor
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
10 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 10 activations)
droidadmiral
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 3:02:39 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 172
AndyHatton wrote:
She is most likely that cost to avoid Jorus weirdness, she has some good force powers on her, and sharing them probably isn't great (especially Sacrifice)

Just what I quickly pulled together for her
--Better Jedi--
44 Yaddle
28 Plo Koon
26 Saesee Tiin
24 Ki-Adi-Mundi
24 Shaak Ti
21 The Dark Woman
14 Coleman Trebor
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
10 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 10 activations)


yeah thats why i would drop the force powers, and the cost.
AndyHatton
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 3:05:28 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
I'm sure it was playtested a bunch of ways, she still gives out a bunch of Force Powers on her own, and maybe it was found to be unbalanced if those Jedi could share MOTF2 from someone.
countrydude82487
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 10:27:43 PM
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Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
AndyHatton wrote:
I'm sure it was playtested a bunch of ways, she still gives out a bunch of Force Powers on her own, and maybe it was found to be unbalanced if those Jedi could share MOTF2 from someone.


That is pretty much spot on. She was tested at many costs and functions but Jorus was the fear.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 8:47:54 AM
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Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
She was one of the toughest characters in the whole set to balance. I had a plan from the start to dramatically boost the old "unplayable" jedi - but that is harder than it sounds to just specifically target those jedi. Cast too wide of a net and you miss your objective, since if it effects too many better pieces, people still won't play the old crappy ones.

We don't ever use set names in abilities or CEs, or else it would have been easier. [Republic allies with a force rating from Clone Strike or Revenge of the Sith sets]

So we had to base it on abilities they had (or didn't have). We must have gone through at least several dozen combos trying to get it down to a reasonable set of recipients. It's still not perfect (Coleman Trebor and Dark Woman still shine above), but I'm still happy with the list of recipients. As you can already see by some of the proposed squad builds, there's still a lot of variety that can be had within those perimeters. I'm personally not a fan of abilities that name three or four specific characters that get a boost (as was suggested numerous times while designing this piece), because I feel like often basically that builds the squad for you. On the other hand giving it to too many recipients is bad as well. I was really aiming for about the size subset to get variety but be very specific about what we boosted. Even though it's a bit wordy, it's probably the simplest set of restrictions to understand. It comes down to having "single attack" (even though that is not a term Defined in our game). So no double, triple, quad or twin. We did think about adding "extra attack" to the list of restrictions, it was already long and verbose we felt it wasn't necessary. Yes you can benefit from extra attack and still get all these bonuses, but the only way you can currently get that is with 66 point Flobi, and if you do that there's really not much room left in your squad for Jedi to get the bonus. Besides I think three more cheaper Jedi would be better in the squad than Flobi and a few with Extra.

When talking about what these Jedi needed to be anywhere near usable, we first assessed why they are not. Most of them are laughable in what they needed. First and foremost, defense to make it to the fight. Next, some kind of offensive boost. Next more force, and finally more speed. They pretty much needed it all. So, we gave it to them. ThumpUp

I don't expect Yaddle squads to shoot to tier 1. She was always meant to be more of a fun piece and give people a chance to actually play some of those old Jedi. Above all I hope people find her fun.

I am excited about her new force powers. I actually don't expect force sacrifice to be used very often. It's a big trade off. Keep in mind it's only for a single TURN, not the rest of the round. So really it will only be used in devastating situations. A massive strafe or Gallop, perhaps a large unleashed the force or thought bomb. In other words at a time when you're going to lose a significant portion of your squad. Because Yaddle dies immediately afterwards, which is no small loss. And the way she's designed with her CE she'll generally be the most expensive piece in her squad. And more than likely you won't run a bunch of under 10 point scrubs in your squad, so she usually will be saving key components of her squad (if it gets used in a skirmish at all).

I'm also really excited about Morichro. I think that is a fun force power that has some potential.

Anyway - glad there seems to be some excitement around her.

UrbanShmi
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 9:23:04 AM
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
Yeah, there are definitely pieces in this set that will be challenging to build around, and Yaddle is one. She's certainly a big chunk of your squad, and an interesting combination of threat and tech. Like Tim said, we decided didn't have any expectation that she would be top-level competitive, but she gives options to play these older Jedi, which people have consistently said they wanted.

It's a very hard balance as a designer--you want to make pieces that people will like and be inspired by and want to build with, but not every piece can have a prominent place in the competitive meta. So you have to make deliberate choices about how much you want a piece to do and where you want it to fit, you send it to the playtesters, and you adjust. In the case of this piece, we adjusted a lot. There are one or two combinations with her that could certainly make a splash, but the objective was more to create an opportunity for some forgotten pieces to see the light of day. I don't know if we got it quite right, but I was happy with how she ended up.
gholli69
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 10:00:18 AM
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Joined: 5/12/2012
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Location: Kokomo, IN
I think her with the Rebel master Yoda that has affinity for Republic and lets jedi make an extra attack at the end of their turn if they have only made one attk. can be really good together with some of these weaker jedi, as she can let them spend force to run adj. with master speed and still get the two attks. because of yoda and he also gives them LS defense which could come in handy for any missed shien saves.
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