If it costs more than 25 points Tim, it's not much of a fix.

The issue as I see it is a lack of tech for jedi squads. Having to play a 50 point commander jedi to get something good simply doesn't leave room for additional synergies and the freedom of playing a squad the way you want to.

Also, the specifics I got from Lou were two fold. Jedi's attack ratings having scaled up the way shooters have. Their defenses simply haven't kept up either. So you get limited real fast in either what tech you can bring to help, or what figures you can use.

85 pt Luke/Obi is a cool figure, its not an answer.

Basically all three of my suggestions came from Lou's issues. Jason K was also involved in identifying the problems.

Is there an anti-swarm ability we could create related to the cost of the swarm pieces? Heaps of 2pt Poggles is frustrating, lots of 5pt Snowtroopers is annoying, a bunch of 12pt Klats is possibly managable... What about an ability that uses their cost like an evade save. Any attack made by an enemy character costing under 20, as long as there is 5 or more of them, this character (some Jedi-type) can make a save using the enemy's cost as the save, and that save value cannot be modified or rerolled. That means a tank Jedi piece would laugh at a Snowtrooper 80% of the time, and laugh at 5 Klats 50% of the time...

Just thinking over toast and tea.

^^ there have been lots of ideas presented.

i think sub factions can be used very effective, a trick I learned from shmi15.
Give OR a great commander with discipline leader who gives evade to a sub faction of OR. Army of light could work for a sub faction, or covenants as well. This way it is not too broad of a boost and you can contain who it can work with.

Some Army of Light general
Cost 33 or ??
-
-
Disciplined leader
Evade
Camaraderie: Allies with Army of Light gain evade

CE:
Each ally within 6 squares with Army of Light can reroll each failed save once.



This way the boosts are contained and easily contained so that you do not get too broad and boost the wrong figures

Instill Fear- At the end of this character's turn characters within 6 squares that cost 10 less then this character are activated, save 11.

would this help deter swarms such as bombs and mouse dump etc? which hurt melee squads

or can't move even.

Because that's a clear example of letting things go and moving on...

Lol, I'm well aware of how sub factions work. We expanded the crap out of them in the V-sets for that reason. Heck, I even made the Army of Light sub faction pieces...


Now, there's nothing wrong with sub factions, but that's not what we are after here primarily.


The modern issue with melee is as I understand it three-fold.

1. Attacks are too low for the modern game, they simply haven't kept that old advantage that they used to have which was a nearly guaranteed hit. Shooters now quite often have that over them.

2. Most don't do much more than 40 damage. Again, we have lots of shooters that do 60-80-120, etc and today they have attack bonuses and such that get them into near auto-hit time much of the time. I really shouldn't say "today" as this was true in WotC days too, and they were the figures that were played. But it's exacerbated simply by a matter of math and bringing other factions to the competitive table.

3. And three, virtually no low cost tech. Think about it. Build a techy shooter squad. There's little need for 100 points of commanders and such. Many of their commanders are in the low 20s, some in the teens. Even the costliest top out at about 33. Compare that to the better jedi support pieces, they are almost always expensive uniques. They are the Masters.

Which means your options for squad building with melee are limited to starting with 50 point commanders most of the time. They need cheaper boosts to remain competitive.

Now there is also the questions of what tech do they need? Movement breakers are fine, but they benefit shooters as well as melee. Why Panaka swap a jedi, when you can swap around Cad Bane? So we need more movement breakers. Charging assault CEs are fine, but they are old and tired, we can add other things than that and be more creative. They also need attack and damage boosts.

Now in some cases, a boost might also help some shooters. That's fine, you have to look at the list and see if it bothers you. For example in the Republic faction, your options are limited to Ani on Stap and Dass, neither of which see play. I'm fine with helping those figures. I'm even fine with helping make Light Tutor see more play. Just have to balance it and watch it in play testing. So point is we don't have to be limited to things like "Republic melee characters with a force rating and +12 or lower attack."

So think broader, wider.

Seems too close to
Leaping Assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)

but I suppose that's really no different than the two reflects as they do have a slight enough difference to matter.

Here are a couple options that I had mentioned in other threads.

CE or SA that grant the one or more of the following abilities.

Force Renewal - Jedi have more force is always a good thing. This could be a stackable ability. Increase Characters force renewal abilities by 1
MOTF2 - Now that they have more force allow them to spend it more.
Lightsaber Reflect - All damage - This always makes shooters a bit more hesitant to shoot
Master Speed
Straight damage bump but make it ranged. Allies with a force rating and a lightsaber get +10 Damage. Allies within 6 squares get +20 Damage
Extra attack
Greater Mobile

It seems to me that we don't have to try to reinvent the wheel. There are mechanics out there that are options.

I agree with everything you say here. More Force on Jedi I think would help a lot.

I'm obviously not a v-set designer, but I thought something like this could be interesting:

Jedi Trainer Hologram (cost 12) Faction: OR with affinity for republic and NR.

Hologram (Ignores all terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target. Does not provide cover. This character is defeated if it activates when no ally with a force rating is within 2 squares.)
Disciplined Leader

Commander Effect:
Allies with a force rating gain Force Renewal 1 and gain 1 additional force point each time they activate. Allies without MotF 2 gain MotF 2.

The idea is from The Old Republic. You can buy holograms of a trainer to teach you new abilities. The CE is the main thing and could easily be another character (a Force Mentor, for example).

Just an idea.

Range in Imperial Assault really does change alot.

Yes, this is really a core part of the issue. Changing it in the rules at this point would be a very drastic change though, one that would probably lose/prevent return of more players than it would gain/keep.

The game should have originally been made that way. But it wasnt so now we have to deal with it.

Making a piece that alters Attacks based on range might work though. It would be very strong.