If boba and cad are equal then why was cad bane never chosen over boba? Not one person played cadbane, no not one. Over 10 people played boba AFH. It isn't because he's the new hotness. It is because even if they were the same point cost, boba out classes cad. No contest... Super stealth squads are the only exception, but generally cad doesn't get used there anyways. Edit: not trying to come of as snarky, just my observations. I am at work so I don't have time to sensor myself. My apologieze if I sound like a jerk.

Against rock squads you bring in evazen. Boba is better for everything else, especially keeping the activation advantage and sniping characters.

The point is, at gencon we saw boba with multiple squads.

1. Double swap
2. Single swap
3. Talon Karde
4. Mace Gowk
5. New Republic Han
6. Yobuck

-5 of these squads made top 8. Coincidence? I highly doubt it... Now we could come back and say "well the top players were playing him so of course he should do well". That argument has merit, but in the end those top players decided he was the best choice for their squads. That matters just as much as the results.

i will give you that cad bane didn't have access to the governor, but the single swap squad with cad bane has been possible for... how long? and it won... what? i wonder why if cad bane is as good as boba, then why has he always failed to break into the meta like boba? because logically boba is the better piece....

lets face it cad bane is great and is a top of the line shooter, but he is no boba fett. heck if you are worried about new republic beats or stealth making a big comeback just plop moff nyna calixte in to your squad and boom 120 accurate damage against people with stealth.


Edit* if i remember cad bane has always needed a secondary piece to do well, such as morrigan or arica... boba does this crap all on his own.

Stealth and Blue and Cad Bane with Morrigan both won a bunch of Regionals from 2011-2013, as well as the NZ Nationals in 2013. It was certainly one of the dominant builds in the 2012/3 season, winning four Regionals, LowerHuttACon, and NZ Nationals. As I understand it, it was effectively chased out of the meta by higher activation squads like Daala, but if the meta shifts back towards lower activations, I think it will be a major force again.

While I would agree that some of the charges raised against Boba Fett AfH have some validity, it ultimately isn't as considerable an issue as the Gha/Mouse Droid problem. Boba AfH's cost effectiveness could be used as evidence in constructing a case against v-set power creep, but this discussion really seems beside the point. The larger discussion that I find of more considerable interest is "are the current problem that face the meta best resolved by altering the rules of the game itself?" My answer would be something to the effect of, "Yes, but only when more moderate methods (such as altering/banning pieces or implementing countermeasures) would not work."

A good example is described in the quotes above, in which modifying an existing Rapport rule (preventing a character from dropping beneath 3 points instead of 1) would resolve the issue. I also find some merit in the suggestion that the Mouse Droid should be modified to have an ability that accomplishes any combination of the following:
1. This character does not grant cover to other characters
2. Other characters may move through the space this character occupies, but may not conclude their movement on the square this character occupies
3. Other characters may ignore this character when selecting a target (via LoS)

Any combination of these points could be implemented as an ability that would prevent the "Mouse Wall" tactic from being implemented successfully (a player would have to surround his shooter in Mouse Droids instead, which doesn't seem very practical). In any case, I believe that a more moderate solution (such as modifying existing pieces, as demonstrated here) is favorable to altering the rules to say, prevent players from using more than 20 units (thus eliminating the "paper" or "swarm" strategy altogether). I can't see why the latter option would be preferable to the former.

Moreover, changing the rules is not done lightly. Troubleshooting the meta requires identifying the problem (high activation squads are too prevalent/successful), identifying the specific cause of the problem (the combination of Gha/Mouse Droids) and proposing a solution that resolves the issue (modifying/banning/countering the piece in question). Now, both sides seem to agree on the issue and its cause (the prevalence of high activation squads and Gha/Mouse Droids), but disagree about what measures should be taken to correct it.

As stated before, I favor selectively modifying/banning/countering certain pieces (or implementing slight alterations to the rules, as in the case of the Rapport example, if absolutely necessary) in order to "bring balance to the Game" (if you'll forgive me the occasional joke). I find that the case for changing the base rules of the game (placing an activation cap on squads, limiting shooters to range 12, etc.) would require a considerable amount of specific evidence. General suggestions, such as, "What if we change this and that rule?" need to be backed up by a detailed analysis of the implications of that rule.

Okay, one last thing. Yes, one could easily "undo" any rule change made to the game. However, players will lose interest (and, moreover, patience) if the designers are tasked with tinkering with the rules and make decisions they don't agree with. And if I know Star wars fans, they aren't very appreciative when someone tinkers with their universe lightly (George Lucas knows what I'm talking about). And no, I don't think that it's acceptable if "someone's play-style will have to get axed."

We would have seen Boba in these previous GenCons had he existed. But that's the point I think others are trying to make -- he replaced the possibilities of other shooters now because of how aggressively costed he is.

With regards to the meta/high-activations, it sounds like we're on the same team here. I think were we disagree is how to go about doing that. I would really like to see some core rules put in place to carpet-bomb the issue, rather than releasing two or three pieces to combat it. As I mentioned in my OP, we've seen Relay Orders begin to take shelter on other pieces, and I think that could be a doorway to removing Mouse Droids altogether. There's no need for a small, 20 DEF piece that can be rapported down to 2 pts. Even if we kept him at a static 3pt value, players have shown they were willing to sacrifice 15-30pts for an additional 5-10 activations.

I appreciate you listing these pieces. I think what you're failing to mention here is that all of these pieces need a supplementary squad behind them to make them particularly good. These pieces do not stand on their own, with maybe the exception of Cad Bane, Bounty Hunter (who has 80 hp and no accurate.)

My point, and the point of several others who have been clamoring for a look at BAFH, is that BAFH is a one-man army. I don't think you can honestly think that these examples are on par with BAFH. I'm sorry, I just don't believe it. I am not denying that they are good in their own respect, because they are. But for 40-60pt shooters who aren't having squads designed around them, BAFH blows them out of the water.

IG88A - twin and assassian = potential 60 dmg. (lacks MA)
Han Solo, Correlian Legend = potential 90, but no GMA
Cad Bane, BH = I think we've all pretty much talked this one to death. He can potentially do 120 under the right conditions, but he still lacks accurate and wrist cable.
Cad Bane, Sep = Low health but awesome tech. Lacks accurate.
Han Solo, Galactic Hero = he's at most doing 60, Never Tell Me the Odds is a solid ability, but not enough for anyone to take him over BAFH
Mara Jade, Jedi = Unlike Boba, in order to utilize her, you need to be adjacent to enemy pieces. I think anyone would pick BAFH over her for purposes of being a shooter.
Luke and Leia = with Commanders, I am sure this piece is great in its own respect.
Embo = at most doing 60 dmg on his own.


Again, the point is that when you have 150pts of your team made and you're looking for a solid shooter for support, you will never turn to any other piece than BAFH. He's just the ultimate shooter now. Sure, these pieces are swell in their own respects, and when a squad is catered to making them good, under the right circumstance they may very well be better than a BAFH w/o commanders. BUT, that's not the argument I or the others are making. What we are saying is that for the points you're paying to play him, given he really doesn't need a load of commanders to be able to stand on his own, he's too good. Which is why you see 5/8 GenCon teams choosing to roll with him and not all the pieces you mentioned above.

Not entirely true. I didn't take Boba in my squad because he was the best piece to take (with Mace and GOWK, as TheHutts referenced earlier). He's certainly solid, and the thought of a shooter with 28 Def in cover is very nice...but Sev and Scorch would've probably been more powerful.

Rather, THE reason I chose him for my squad was because I liked him. I've never liked Cad Bane...I've always loved Boba. So I finally got a chance to use a competitive Boba in my favorite squad (Mace/GOWK), and so I jumped at it. I knew I was probably not going to win it all, but I really enjoyed playing the squad with Boba and so that's what I did (Jason K said the same thing about playing his Handmaidens this year, even though he knew he probably wouldn't win it all).

I think the title of the other Boba thread captures this discussion far better than this discussion so far: "Boba AFH: Too Much or The New Hotness?" People seem to be divided on the issue. Myself, I think he's more the New Hotness than too much. After all, how long has it been since we had a competitive Boba Fett? We finally have one now, and so it's not surprising to me that he's popular.

When it comes to power-for-cost, try ignoring Wrist Cable and Bait and Switch...they didn't come up once for me during the Championship, since they're so situational. Would people still think he was overpowered if he lost those 2 SAs? The core of his character is triple/gma/accurate/flight...after that, everything else is just flavor.

One thing I'm finding interesting is all these arguments about Boba really feel like a copy-paste from 2006, when Boba BH debuted.