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Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:19:53 AM
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the major point I want to make is that the designers don't care if you playtest that has no bearing on you becoming a designer. I have seen way to people put in the work and playtest like crazy and it never happened for them, even though they were well liked and had a large impact on some major pieces that are well liked by the community.

They need to come up with a clear, well defined way to become a designer. such as saying we will select one person per set to be a new designer based on 3 fields, one: competitive results, two:playtest contributions, and three: the results of their application. and then actually follow through with it.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:27:49 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
the major point I want to make is that the designers don't care if you playtest that has no bearing on you becoming a designer. I have seen way to people put in the work and playtest like crazy and it never happened for them, even though they were well liked and had a large impact on some major pieces that are well liked by the community.

They need to come up with a clear, well defined way to become a designer. such as saying we will select one person per set to be a new designer based on 3 fields, one: competitive results, two:playtest contributions, and three: the results of their application. and then actually follow through with it.


I have to disagree. Even though I am not involved in designing or playtesting, I do have access to all of those threads on 'Gamers and Facebook. I have seen discussions for many of the vsets design team choices. Playtesting does weigh on those decisions. There are other factors as well, but when someone is given playtesting duties and is diligent that goes a long way to getting them on as a designer. We need new designers. Help with the whole design process (including playtesters) is always appreciated...I've seen that appreciation reflected in those threads.
Echo24
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:31:38 AM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
the major point I want to make is that the designers don't care if you playtest that has no bearing on you becoming a designer. I have seen way to people put in the work and playtest like crazy and it never happened for them, even though they were well liked and had a large impact on some major pieces that are well liked by the community.

They need to come up with a clear, well defined way to become a designer. such as saying we will select one person per set to be a new designer based on 3 fields, one: competitive results, two:playtest contributions, and three: the results of their application. and then actually follow through with it.


I have to disagree. Even though I am not involved in designing or playtesting, I do have access to all of those threads on 'Gamers and Facebook. I have seen discussions for many of the vsets design team choices. Playtesting does weigh on those decisions. There are other factors as well, but when someone is given playtesting duties and is diligent that goes a long way to getting them on as a designer. We need new designers. Help with the whole design process (including playtesters) is always appreciated...I've seen that appreciation reflected in those threads.


The thing to keep in mind is that playtesting isn't the ONLY thing necessary to become a designer. Hard work through playtesting or some other contribution (QC, for example) is necessary but not sufficient to get a spot as a designer. So if you did a lot of playtesting but weren't chosen to be a designer, it's likely that you failed in some other area.

I am glad that we have a more formal process for choosing new designers. I've been beating that horse to death for years, and this year we finally got enough people agreeing to do it.
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:35:50 AM
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Alright, my 2cents.
First, the application is complete b.s. And if you designers don't think it is, then please, fill it out yourself, post it on here, and let us review it. I think if all the designers filled it out, we could easily see which ones don't deserve to be there.

2nd. I will be bold and say there are some designers who have designed that shouldn't be allowed to design anymore just on past experiences. There were certain designers when I was play testing that I could just look at their designs and laugh. Those same designers were the hardest to work with when suggestions were made on their designs. Those people should not be allowed back in your masonic circle of designers.

3rd. I think Laura will be great! She went through the process, and is a great player who is active/very creative with squad building.


4th. Its a shame that a guy can be very inexperienced in this game and take a squad that has multiple counters ran in the tournament, and finish 2nd in the big tournament. Not taking anything away from him by any means, but a designer that can design a piece that is THAT broken, needs to be reevaluated for future designs. But its not just that one designer, its the whole design team on that set. It should've never been passed. If you can't see that 5 point pieces doing 70damage while running 12 squares at a high attatck is bad for the game then please,please,PLEASE! Step down from designing.

Lastly, this is not a shot at one person/one design team. This is just a problem that needs addressing soon and fast. Pieces that cost less than 10 points should not have the ability to do.more damage than a unique (see almost any piece that's a unique) Its to the point where you can't run Vader at a tournament. Or Luke. Or any Unique character that we grew up loving. Instead we have to run Admiral Dalaa, who I didn't even know existed until the v sets. Or San Hill with Poggle the Lesser. Or Captain Panaka and his ungodly Naboo troopers.... who were beat by battle droids. Lets just end the swarm craze because its not enjoyable to invest 50 points into a unique, tto see him go down to a 5 point super trooper.

With Infinite Pleasure,
Richard M. Laws
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:38:58 AM
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To follow that up I think that all but 1 of the designers that wasn't one of the first 3 spent significant time and effort play testing. Unfortunately on the past when u had one design spot open and a bunch of play testers to choose from it still leaves a bunch of playtesters on the sidelines. It doesn't mean they didn't do a good job. It doesn't mean that they weren't qualified. It just means they weren't picked at that time
Darth_Jim
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:54:09 AM
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shmi15 wrote:
4th. Its a shame that a guy can be very inexperienced in this game and take a squad that has multiple counters ran in the tournament, and finish 2nd in the big tournament. Not taking anything away from him by any means, but a designer that can design a piece that is THAT broken, needs to be reevaluated for future designs.


I may be at fault for giving some of you the impression that he was 'inexperienced' by some of my previous posts or dialogue on the show. Sorry. Truth is, he is a very solid player without the pedigree. I talked to someone else at GenCon who is in his playgroup and he told me that this guy had a lot of seat time with a number of different squads and factions this season and had very good results with three totally different squads in tournaments.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:16:41 AM
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shmi15 wrote:
Alright, my 2cents.
First, the application is complete b.s. And if you designers don't think it is, then please, fill it out yourself, post it on here, and let us review it. I think if all the designers filled it out, we could easily see which ones don't deserve to be there.

2nd. I will be bold and say there are some designers who have designed that shouldn't be allowed to design anymore just on past experiences. There were certain designers when I was play testing that I could just look at their designs and laugh. Those same designers were the hardest to work with when suggestions were made on their designs. Those people should not be allowed back in your masonic circle of designers.

3rd. I think Laura will be great! She went through the process, and is a great player who is active/very creative with squad building.


4th. Its a shame that a guy can be very inexperienced in this game and take a squad that has multiple counters ran in the tournament, and finish 2nd in the big tournament. Not taking anything away from him by any means, but a designer that can design a piece that is THAT broken, needs to be reevaluated for future designs. But its not just that one designer, its the whole design team on that set. It should've never been passed. If you can't see that 5 point pieces doing 70damage while running 12 squares at a high attatck is bad for the game then please,please,PLEASE! Step down from designing.

Lastly, this is not a shot at one person/one design team. This is just a problem that needs addressing soon and fast. Pieces that cost less than 10 points should not have the ability to do.more damage than a unique (see almost any piece that's a unique) Its to the point where you can't run Vader at a tournament. Or Luke. Or any Unique character that we grew up loving. Instead we have to run Admiral Dalaa, who I didn't even know existed until the v sets. Or San Hill with Poggle the Lesser. Or Captain Panaka and his ungodly Naboo troopers.... who were beat by battle droids. Lets just end the swarm craze because its not enjoyable to invest 50 points into a unique, tto see him go down to a 5 point super trooper.

With Infinite Pleasure,
Richard M. Laws


The reason I did so well was because people weren't trying to counter my build. The were counter the 5 point trooper builds. I brought beefier troopers to help me against Durge, Luke and leia and yobuck. The squad I played has an amazing amount of versatility and can handle a lot. It has some tricks, but just because you know them doesn't mean you can beat them.

My troopers weren't over powered. The elite scouts only attacked once per turn for 30 dmg with a 12 atk.(16 with needa) I only had 5 of them along with a repulsir and 3 imp dignitaries. I would say it is tier 1, but in need of a nerf? Nope, maybe drop reserves, but that's about it. If you want to see it played I will be getting vassal this week. :)

Second, I complete agree that extreme swarm squads are bad for the game. They are probably the hardest extreme to get a 3 point win against unless you are running a hard counter. This is bad for competitive play. Also high act squads make games long and agonizing. The least fun game I played at gencon was with Durge, cad and poggle against jerry and his naboo troops. We were both hating life that game(also his dice were hating him).
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:23:53 AM
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Part of the problem with Dalaa particularly is you can't prep for each extreme. Naboos are another problem in their own. As are poggle swarms.

Imagine going tons tournament, and playing poggle bombs, Dalaa, and Naboo as your first 3 games. Who would enjoy that?!?!
juice man
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:20:53 PM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
shmi15 wrote:
Part of the problem with Dalaa particularly is you can't prep for each extreme. Naboos are another problem in their own. As are poggle swarms.

Imagine going tons tournament, and playing poggle bombs, Dalaa, and Naboo as your first 3 games. Who would enjoy that?!?!
Someone who is running Bastila and ABM?
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:38:58 PM
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juice man wrote:
shmi15 wrote:
Part of the problem with Dalaa particularly is you can't prep for each extreme. Naboos are another problem in their own. As are poggle swarms.

Imagine going tons tournament, and playing poggle bombs, Dalaa, and Naboo as your first 3 games. Who would enjoy that?!?!
Someone who is running Bastila and ABM?




well, that works on poggle, but daala has yslamari and naboo have the padawan commander so those 2 still roll it since ABM doesn't disrupt them in that case.
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:41:49 PM
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ABM takes care of naboo quite nicely. ABM disrupts the commanders (mon mothma, panaka, etc) so the padawan commander doesn't help. Padawan commander only helps against disruptive/distraction of the actual troops.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:44:51 PM
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urbanjedi wrote:
ABM takes care of naboo quite nicely. ABM disrupts the commanders (mon mothma, panaka, etc) so the padawan commander doesn't help. Padawan commander only helps against disruptive/distraction of the actual troops.



so it does, I knew there was a reason you are on the design team now lol BigGrin
juice man
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:50:47 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
juice man wrote:
shmi15 wrote:
Part of the problem with Dalaa particularly is you can't prep for each extreme. Naboos are another problem in their own. As are poggle swarms.

Imagine going tons tournament, and playing poggle bombs, Dalaa, and Naboo as your first 3 games. Who would enjoy that?!?!
Someone who is running Bastila and ABM?




well, that works on poggle, but daala has yslamari and naboo have the padawan commander so those 2 still roll it since ABM doesn't disrupt them in that case.
Yslamiri helps, but it is not a silver bullet. Nor is ABM a silver bullet to those others.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:52:56 PM
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doesn't matter, this topic got derailed, my fault, so my last post will be this:


Laura I am pretty sure you are the first female designer in the V-sets so congrats on getting selected and congrats on breaking the barrier for future women to come!!!!! Best of luck! ThumpUp
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:56:42 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
doesn't matter, this topic got derailed, my fault, so my last post will be this:


Laura I am pretty sure you are the first female designer in the V-sets so congrats on getting selected and congrats on breaking the barrier for future women to come!!!!! Best of luck! ThumpUp


Wait!... There are other woman that play this game? Are they single? Where are these other woman you speak of? Wub
DarkDracul
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:58:27 PM
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shmi15 wrote:

4th. Its a shame that a guy can be very inexperienced in this game and take a squad that has multiple counters ran in the tournament, and finish 2nd in the big tournament. Not taking anything away from him by any means, but a designer that can design a piece that is THAT broken, needs to be reevaluated for future designs. But its not just that one designer, its the whole design team on that set. It should've never been passed. If you can't see that 5 point pieces doing 70damage while running 12 squares at a high attatck is bad for the game then please,please,PLEASE! Step down from designing.
But several experienced players did try taking Daala to tournaments and lost with her. We discovered that the entire meta had shifted to adjust for Daala. I took Daala to the Chicago regional and finished at the bottom. I had terrible such match-ups and Daala's isn't really my playstyle. It's not because I'm a bad player, I took 3rd place last year and 10th place this year at GenCon. Also, I taught Atmsalad how to play. The game is Strong with him and I have taught him well. He took 5th place at Indiana Regional with Old Republic and 5th Place at the Chicago Regionals with Mandos. Atmsalad built a Daala that no one was prepared for and he practiced it like crazy with me for weeks.(I mean for 7 days, not Weeks himself) Atmsalad took 5th place at Indiana Regional with Old Republic and 5th Place at the Chicago Regionals with Mandos. Following that up with a second place championship finish proves that my young apprentice has become a true master.
DarkDracul
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:59:38 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
doesn't matter, this topic got derailed, my fault, so my last post will be this:


Laura I am pretty sure you are the first female designer in the V-sets so congrats on getting selected and congrats on breaking the barrier for future women to come!!!!! Best of luck! ThumpUp


Wait!... There are other woman that play this game? Are they single? Where are these other woman you speak of? Wub
ehh nevermind... who is Atmsalad? I don't know this guy.RollEyes
THEGUNGAN
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:02:24 PM
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I don't care who the designer is just that Bill is in control or has some say. Man the game sucked without him
Deathwielded
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 4:43:32 PM
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DarkDracul wrote:
Atmsalad built a Daala that no one was prepared for and he practiced it like crazy with me for weeks.(I mean for 7 days, not Weeks himself) Atmsalad took 5th place at Indiana Regional with Old Republic and 5th Place at the Chicago Regionals with Mandos. Following that up with a second place championship finish proves that my young apprentice has become a true master.


Lol! I love the word play there.Laugh
countrydude82487
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2014 6:16:50 PM
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Joined: 12/26/2008
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atmsalad wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
doesn't matter, this topic got derailed, my fault, so my last post will be this:


Laura I am pretty sure you are the first female designer in the V-sets so congrats on getting selected and congrats on breaking the barrier for future women to come!!!!! Best of luck! ThumpUp


Wait!... There are other woman that play this game? Are they single? Where are these other woman you speak of? Wub


My wife....
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