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Poll Question : Gencon is over how do we proceed with daala?
Choice Votes Statistics
she didnt win, so leave alone. 11 26.829268 %
she's still too meta warping, change her. 11 26.829268 %
only thing she needs is reserves dropped. 7 17.073170 %
Didn't win but total npe, ban her. 12 29.268292 %

Post Gencon Daala Options
theultrastar
Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:43:20 PM
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Joined: 4/12/2010
Posts: 564
THEGUNGAN wrote:
Daala is not good for the game. I get why she was made but there is too much damage out put for the IMP.
I have tried to make a Rebel build with Han but the lack of Mas and damage out put doesn't make it work.

My point is that the main reason why I don't think she is balanced is because of the damage she can gain and AP.

She won a big tournament and was close to winning a second. Its really not about here winning or not its that she is not good for the health of the further of the game.

With the new miniature game out I really think our numbers will be down next year more than ever. We really need to think about the health of the game and what it will look like in the next year or two.

So i still vote that she needs to be changed.


Good solid vote.
Deathwielded
Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:51:38 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
From looking just at the results, I don't think Daala is a problem. She went first-second in New Zealand but there were basically no scissors squads and the top players were using her. At GenCon, she did well but didn't win, and there were a lot of tough games. She has plenty of tough match-ups and depending on the build even some auto-losses. I didn't bring Bare Bones Snowtroopers (http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/138208/bare-bones-snowtroopers) to GenCon because I couldn't see any way at all to beat Skybuck, and I expected it to be there. Even with the build I took I wouldn't have expected more than a 25% chance against a good player. (I was lucky to not have to see Skybuck.)

So I voted to just remove Reserves.

However, it is clear that she is an NPE for many people. More of an NPE than Naboo troopers? More of an NPE than Yobuck swap? Than a pawned Lancer? Poggle bombs? I don't know, but for some reason she gets all the attention. And I think the reason she gets attention is that the squads she beats most easily are the squads that most people want to play: balanced squads with 3-5 threats all in the 20-50 cost range. (Darth Jim's Talon squad fits that mold, so I'm not surprised it's an NPE for him.)

I've mentioned this before, but I think the solution is to introduce a handful of 20ish point pieces that are "minor scissors" pieces. Currently, in order to take out a bunch of small HP pieces quickly, there aren't a lot of options. Momaw is helpful, but just about all the other options cost too much to simply toss into a squad. A Lancer is optimized with pawn of the dark side and an MTB engine, which takes pretty much half of a squad. Yobuck is a huge chunk of a squad. Same thing for the newer strafing/galloping vehicles. For scissors, it's "go big or go home". If we had more options (including reinforcements options) that could cost about 20 and somewhat reliably take out 4 troopers all at once before dying, that would help a lot. Maybe you don't include a scissors piece in a squad - maybe you do. It's a risk to go without it, but no different from going without direct damage, where you might have a tough matchup against GOWK/Zannah/Caedus. But right now, those scissors options are not really available.

Those scissors options are needed for other squads, too. Klat swarm, Poggle, Naboo, Daala, Tantives, Vong swarms, Mouse dumps. A scissors piece that doesn't take up 25% of your squad would help against all of those. And I think I just named half the NPEs in the game.

So I voted for just removing Reserves. If Vset 9 doesn't have enough of those Scissors pieces to satisfy the majority, then I'd vote for a ban on Daala at that time. (Although I suspect this debate will then just move to Klats or Naboo.) I've had a lot of fun playing her and I really like the piece, but it's not worth running people out of the game for.


I agree while Daala squads with the style that ATMsalad played are really good they aren't unstoppable. But Daala's Snowtroopers are a problem and a big one so far as I see it. I think Reserves can go and I really think the Snowtrooper Officer is the real problem with Rapport 2 for snows. Anyway I think that if we had some cheap scissors options in the 20 point range I think Daala will be tempered altiile. How about something like this: http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/16748/jenna-zan-arbor
atmsalad
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:38:23 AM
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Joined: 7/26/2011
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Deathwielded wrote:
I agree while Daala squads with the style that ATMsalad played are really good they aren't unstoppable. But Daala's Snowtroopers are a problem and a big one so far as I see it. I think Reserves can go and I really think the Snowtrooper Officer is the real problem with Rapport 2 for snows. Anyway I think that if we had some cheap scissors options in the 20 point range I think Daala will be tempered altiile. How about something like this: http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/16748/jenna-zan-arbor


I'm glad that you think the squad I played can stay. I think if most of the people I beat had play tested against my squad I would have lost.

I think your right about that rapport 2 being an issue. Same thing with naboo troopers in my opinion. The only question is what about raxus prime squads? Because of their ten health do you think they aren't an issue? I know there are some players in new zealond that would argue that point tooth and nail, haha
Dr Daman
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2014 12:07:24 PM
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Joined: 9/2/2011
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Location: Upper Hutt, Wellington, New Zealand
atmsalad wrote:
I think your right about that rapport 2 being an issue. Same thing with naboo troopers in my opinion. The only question is what about raxus prime squads? Because of their ten health do you think they aren't an issue? I know there are some players in new zealond that would argue that point tooth and nail, haha


I have no idea who you're talking aboutWink
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:25:24 AM
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Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
Dr Daman wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
I think your right about that rapport 2 being an issue. Same thing with naboo troopers in my opinion. The only question is what about raxus prime squads? Because of their ten health do you think they aren't an issue? I know there are some players in new zealond that would argue that point tooth and nail, haha


I have no idea who you're talking aboutWink


Lol, typical!!
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