Guys, I know I'm guilty of being argumentative, but we really do need to take Jim's post seriously. See bolded:



These issues are not being ignored; they are being addressed. But it's unrealistic to think that the balance team is going to be spending every spare moment of their lives reviewing NPEs. We can argue about pieces a lot faster than they can fix them, and that's not saying they're slow. The balance team needs time to consider how to improve pieces so they get them right the first time. I'm sure we'd all much rather have a new Fett in two months who is well-balanced and usable instead of a new Fett in two minutes who is Tier 3 because we rushed the balance team.

We're all on the same team guys. Let's help the balance team out and keep it constructive.

I know we can keep the arguments calm, they've calmed down a little already. We'll get through this.

+1

And it was about this point (2 1/2 pages in) the thread left the OP and went to "yes" Boba vs. "no" Boba.

I must have missed this post. I'll take this opportunity to list out my concerns about Boba:
[EDIT: This pretty much devolved into just two paragraphs expressing most of my concerns with the piece.]

- My first main concern was the cost. Everyone says he was "aggressively costed," and I can agree, but from what I remember from reading the design thread, his cost was determined by the reasoning "first Boba was 50, let's make this guy 50." I understand that the goal was to have him around Cad Bane's cost, but there are better ways to decide on a cost than "just because."

- Boba has no key weakness. Cad Bane was bad enough, with Stealth + GMA + Flight. I'd say he was already overpowered, with Stealth providing excellent shooter defense and GMA+Flight being the anti-melee combination that it is. His main (and only, really) weakness was his low HP and Defense, meaning that, if you reached him, you could probably take him out quickly. Boba, on the other hand, has no key weaknesses. Evade+Bait and Switch gives him a ton of ranged defense (I usually factor Evade as roughly equivalent to Stealth, in terms of defense). This is okay. Then he has Flight + GMA. Now he starts becoming problematic, though I guess he's still comparable to Cad Bane. But then you add Wrist Cable, which, while a great idea and perfect for flavor, puts him over the top. It's a killer anti-melee defense--a melee piece can't attack what it can't base. Regardless of if it is "balanced" or not, it was completely unnecessary. GMA + Flight was all the anti-melee defense he could need, and Wrist Cable just puts it over the top. Every piece needs a weakness, a vulnerability. It's just part of the process.
Not to mention, Boba has 30 more HP than Cad Bane. That's a lot, enough to be noticeable. With Wrist Cable and that 30 extra HP (not even factoring in Quick Draw), Boba should have cost more than Cad Bane. Or, that's my opinion.


Finally, a quick note: just because one piece has an overpowered combination, doesn't mean that it is okay to make another piece with that same combination. I think GMA combined with Flight is one such combination--it's nasty for a melee piece to finally get a shooter adjacent, only for that shooter to make all its attacks and then fly away without even an Attack of Opportunity. It's not good for melee pieces, especially on higher-HP shooters. Personally, I think that pieces should stop receiving this combination, or, if they do, it should be heavily factored into their design and cost.

Not to mention, if someone brainstormed a melee piece with GMA and Flight, people would be throwing red flags everywhere.

That's a valid point. I guess Darth Jim's post is enough to satisfy me that they are working to resolve these issues, but that's about as far as I can respond to this. But thanks for responding

Don't put me in there. I played him for one reason only. Wanted to gauge how strong he was in Republic.

And the result was he wasn't that strong. Skybuck is a much better squad, as you well know. Given that I lost our game because I couldn't get that extra damage on your Boba, that I'd have gotten with momentum and Dash.

this is great except it doesn't address the issue that a single attacker, single swap boba squad won gencon. so honestly do you think that if you banned the governor the meta would suddenly open up and allow for squads that beat the squad that won gencon on a consistent basis?

i also want to point out the squad that won gencon used what? 2 v-set pieces that both cost less then 17 points so what is the underlying reason it was so good?...... high activation, swap, and BOBA.

the main thing that double swap does to elevate its position in the meta is take out squads like Yobuck swap too easily.

You need time (more than a round) to get into the Imps players backfield to take out his activations and because the double swap allows such a great range you risk losing R2 and/or panaka/mas first round. That's generally what kept stealth and Blus in check, the fact that it lost to Yobuck without exchanging activations for survivability.

The double swap takes that weakness away, again too much movement. Boba exacerbates the issue but the main point is the governor effectively doubling the imperial squads movement.

Jim's squad is a counter squad. He maxed activations in order to go last to beat the double swap. It likely would perform poorly against yobuck but there were very few in the tourney and so he dodged most of his bad match ups. Without the governor, people might still play high activation Thrawn builds but there are more counters to it and its possible without the double swap being such a perceived force Thrawn builds might not have shown up, or at least being less effective.

I almost ran a Yobuck, Mira, Quinlan, Panaka squad. I didn't because of the double swap, not boba.

So whereas Joe's point about high activations with 3 point minimum activations is true, the reality is that if a number of current issue are addressed, high activation squads will fall away.

they have already said they are looking into it in this forum. I think people missed out on that during the whole passionate debate about Boba, which i contributed to, because I felt people were overlooking the main issues, like Deri said in his post. I completely agree with you that the community should respect the decision the the Balance team makes, because we aren't the ones making the decisions.

I still say DUCK SEASON

When evazen is in swap you swap in, do 30 damage and swap out. That should worry you...