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Ideas to Fix Melee Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, May 7, 2015 3:02:58 PM
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kezzamachine wrote:
Ooo! A Wookie Bodyguard. A sub-20pt piece that you could Lobotify, with some beefy HP and a decent attack, buuuut instead of Bodyguard, give him a bodyguard-type ability that works specifically for Direct Damage (so when a character takes damage but not from an attack roll!).

That would answer things like Blast Bugs and Rigged Detonators and you might see more Jedi as a small byproduct...?


I like this concept. ThumbsUp
spryguy1981
Posted: Thursday, May 7, 2015 3:26:28 PM
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You mean like the Guardian ability Bronson used on his Chewbacca! Awesome idea! It would be a great tool for melee defense.
Dr Daman
Posted: Thursday, May 7, 2015 3:52:24 PM
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spryguy1981 wrote:
You mean like the Guardian ability Bronson used on his Chewbacca! Awesome idea! It would be a great tool for melee defense.


Haha, that's what I thought of when I read that too! It's a great ability.
SithBot
Posted: Thursday, May 7, 2015 5:22:33 PM
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Jedi Defense Expert (or some better name)

Cost 31

HP 110
Def 20
Atk 12
Dam 20

Melee
Speed 8
Greater Mobile Attack
Double Attack
Deceptive


Force 2 Renewal 1
Deflecting Slash: Force 2, When hit by a nonmelee attack from an adjacent opponent, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker and takes no damage and this character takes no damage with a save of 11.
Lightsaber Block

TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, May 7, 2015 7:51:33 PM
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On a more general note, do Seps have too much of a stranglehold on the meta at the moment, and what pieces would help with it?

- Commando Droid Officers have featured in 3 out of 4 squads in the last two Regional finals.
- Dr Daman said (typed) on SHNN that he reckons he can beat anything with Durge/CDOs/Spotter/Sniper/Poggle on Rancor Pit (the same squad that TINT bought to PA Regional and which only conceded 100 points once).

I think it's a little early to draw conclusions, but I'd certainly like to see it played at some more Regionals - it's a very well balanced squad with high activations and diverse attackers. Something has to be gatekeeper obviously, but this seems like a very strong gatekeeper with few weaknesses.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 9:14:16 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
obiwan1knight wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
To add something to the pool, I would like to see a force power that specifically targets one CE and disrupts just that one CE. I picture that being how battle meditation word work. One Jedi attempting to take one commander out of the fight.


This sounds like a really good idea.


BigGrin


See Aves.
atmsalad
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 8:18:55 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
obiwan1knight wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
To add something to the pool, I would like to see a force power that specifically targets one CE and disrupts just that one CE. I picture that being how battle meditation word work. One Jedi attempting to take one commander out of the fight.


This sounds like a really good idea.


BigGrin


See Aves.
Huh?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 8:30:24 PM
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Check the set 10 spoilers.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 8:53:11 PM
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Random ability brainstorming ideas (apologies if something similar to any were posted, didn't read the entire thread):

Elusive - All attacks against this character by nonadjacent enemies are considered natural 1s unless at least one other character combines fire with the attacker.

Unfazed - Immune to abilities and force powers that effect activated or unactivated characters.

Imposing Presence - Attacks by characters with a cost of less than half of this character's cost against this character are negated, save 11.

Rolling Dodge - Whenever this character makes a save that negates all damage from an attack, immediately move this character up to two squares. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Advanced Lightsaber Reflect - FP 2; When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage and one target enemy or the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage, save 11.

So Predictable... - Whenever this character is attacked by a non-unique character, they are +4 defense against all subsequent attacks by characters with that name.

Break Their Resolve - Whenever this character defeats a non-unique unit, all other enemy characters with that name are -1 attack for the remainder of the skirmish. This effect stacks.
kobayashimaru
Posted: Friday, May 8, 2015 10:30:55 PM
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@TheHutts,
as much as I'm loathe (whormsom) to admit it,
gha nachkt to admit it,
GGDAC and Lancer (pre errata) to admit it,
yes, droid based Sep-squads are a little too competitive. Its ridiculous to spam 3pt battle droids who can attack at +12 for 40dmg... and to be able to bring more and more in via San Hill, Lobot, etc...

I think there'd need to be some balancing there - and thats also partly why I think shooters are, in Standard and especially in VSET era, too powerful and that force users and melee more broadly, are nerfed.
Maybe a simple fix is to limit the number of uniques or CEs/SAs in a squad?

@EmperorDragon!
Where'd that pure awesome come from?! BigGrin
we couldve used that on the customs boosterpack competition thread hehehe,
there's some great ideas in there.
As Surf, Biggsy and LordBall advise me (amongst others hehe),
SWMinis is a simple and elegant game - many of the abilities flirt with the "SWRPG Lite" line that many doesn't want to see happen,
yet, that said,
I'd be happy to see those abilities on well points-balanced pieces. (Elusive is SUPER!)

I also agree with Lightsaber reflect wording,
I take it a little too far with my "Lightsaber Redirect" approach - because I want to give 'molecular shielding lite' to Force Users via Lightsaber Redirect, instead of Lightsaber Defense or the pithy Lightsaber Reflect/Deflect...

Terrain deformation - being able to alter the map in realtime in a tournament context, would be AWESOME.


@all,
there are so many ideas in this thread still - its great to see the 'ideas brainstorming' in real time.
maybe there'll be a better balance arise from those ideas?
So long as we don't have ridiculous shooter spam swarms of >10pts squads mowing down pieces, and with superstealth, and with direct damage/Area of Effect stuff... there'll be loads of life left in SWMinis. BigGrin


General_Grievous
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 4:51:56 AM
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Ideas for each faction's melee:

OR (handing out force renewal 2 from a Bastilla-rival piece)
Sith (Dark Armor for all force users)
Republic (good to go now with Obikin, maybe another Qui-Gon trainer type piece to hand out force bond knight speed to the weaker ones)
Separatist (Grievous, Lightsaber trainer that hands out charging and acrobatic to magnaguards/bodyguards)
Imperial (Force renewal, mobile and Lightsaber throw for the melee force masses)
Rebel (I think melee here are doing pretty good with blanket evade/mobile and force)
New Republic (Same as above, a like Jedi Trainer to hand out a similar free Lightsaber deflect like Jedi exile)
Vong (good, please leave be hahaha)
Fringe (Geonosian Arena Handler who has rapport for large/huge savage characters and hands out battering assault, bloodthirsty and cleave to them)
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 4:20:29 PM
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Often times when I am watching Clone Wars you will see Anakin, Ahsoka, or Obi-Wan leading a charge or a retreat and blocking blaster fire that would not hit him/her, but would go past him to hit the group of people behind him.

I wonder if there is a way to represent this

Defensive Positioning: This character can use Lightsaber Deflect for any attacks that go through a square this character is adjacent to.
idea might need some help.
the idea would be that blaster bolts dont just go wizzing by this character and hitting people behind him

Build: (shot in the dark)

Jedi Defense Master

Cost 28
HP 80
Def 20
Atk 10
Dam 20

Melee
Double
Mettle
Defensive Position: If this character does not make any attacks on its turn, until the beginning of its next turn it can prevent any attacks from non adjacent enemies that go through a square this character is adjacent to with a save of 11

Force 2 Renewal 1
Lightsaber Block
Force Valor
countrydude82487
Posted: Saturday, May 9, 2015 6:12:16 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
Often times when I am watching Clone Wars you will see Anakin, Ahsoka, or Obi-Wan leading a charge or a retreat and blocking blaster fire that would not hit him/her, but would go past him to hit the group of people behind him.

I wonder if there is a way to represent this

Defensive Positioning: This character can use Lightsaber Deflect for any attacks that go through a square this character is adjacent to.
idea might need some help.
the idea would be that blaster bolts dont just go wizzing by this character and hitting people behind him

Build: (shot in the dark)

Jedi Defense Master

Cost 28
HP 80
Def 20
Atk 10
Dam 20

Melee
Double
Mettle
Defensive Position: If this character does not make any attacks on its turn, until the beginning of its next turn it can prevent any attacks from non adjacent enemies that go through a square this character is adjacent to with a save of 11

Force 2 Renewal 1
Lightsaber Block
Force Valor



Not a bad idea. Very Thematic.
HanSolo79
Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2015 12:07:43 PM
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Here's a custom character, and ability I made up a while back....maybe something like this could help, thoughts?

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/9057/ray-shield-generator
jak
Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:53:08 PM
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jak wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:
Master Yoda has that CE, But giving it out to a few other pieces would also help.

*ninja'd by the Hutts for Exile


A Fringe piece giving that CE would solve the problem


The answer is clear.
And the answer is mineThumbsUp
Jonnyb815
Posted: Monday, May 11, 2015 11:03:00 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Check the set 10 spoilers.

Great on paper fixes not sure they will do anything because of the high cost.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, May 11, 2015 12:12:16 PM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Check the set 10 spoilers.

Great on paper fixes not sure they will do anything because of the high cost.


Certainly not meant to be a fix all, but another tool in the arsenal. clearly you have to build with it in mind. It's not a throw on
Jonnyb815
Posted: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:24:20 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Jonnyb815 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Check the set 10 spoilers.

Great on paper fixes not sure they will do anything because of the high cost.


Certainly not meant to be a fix all, but another tool in the arsenal. clearly you have to build with it in mind. It's not a throw on


It doesnt do anything because of the high cost. Can you please stop making high cost figures trying to help melee this is not the answer? low cost ideas like Bill has is the way to fix this problem or if you want figures to even see play.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:32:40 AM
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The piece wasn't designed to help melee, it was designed as a counter to activation control and CEs, both of which are things melee squads can struggle against, although certainly other squad types have similar issues. Tim was just pointing out that there are creative solutions out there that might not be the most obvious, but could still help in the short-term with the right build. There are some other things coming in the set that, while not direct melee boosts, can still help with the weaknesses of those squads. It's not just one right answer. It's about creative solutions.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 11:07:31 AM
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UrbanShmi wrote:
The piece wasn't designed to help melee, it was designed as a counter to activation control and CEs, both of which are things melee squads can struggle against, although certainly other squad types have similar issues. Tim was just pointing out that there are creative solutions out there that might not be the most obvious, but could still help in the short-term with the right build. There are some other things coming in the set that, while not direct melee boosts, can still help with the weaknesses of those squads. It's not just one right answer. It's about creative solutions.

think we are talking about two different figures.
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