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An open discussion about where we are at in the game Options
atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 2:23:53 PM
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theultrastar wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
If Boba is broken it's only in the sense that the Klat is broken. Pushing out other pieces in its cost range during squadbuilding. It's not unbeatable on the gameboard.


I don't think the argument has ever been that he is unbeatable.

Agreed, it is more like his power to point ratio is very very good. He would still a beast at 60 points, but may leave room for other options to out perform him.
SignerJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 2:41:07 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
theultrastar wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
If Boba is broken it's only in the sense that the Klat is broken. Pushing out other pieces in its cost range during squadbuilding. It's not unbeatable on the gameboard.


I don't think the argument has ever been that he is unbeatable.

Agreed, it is more like his power to point ratio is very very good. He would still a beast at 60 points, but may leave room for other options to out perform him.


What atmsalad said.

Plus, still think Wrist Cable is excessive and needs to go. But the balance team is looking into it, and I'll leave it up to them. Smile
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 2:42:22 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
What atmsalad said.

Plus, still think Wrist Cable is excessive and needs to go. But the balance team is looking into it, and I'll leave it up to them. Smile


What do you think the best squad for him is, if 2 point pieces are not possible and double swap is not viable? What squad do you normally play him in? I'm interested in your opinion because you've been very consistent in saying you believe that Boba is too strong.
SignerJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 2:47:35 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
SignerJ wrote:
What atmsalad said.

Plus, still think Wrist Cable is excessive and needs to go. But the balance team is looking into it, and I'll leave it up to them. Smile


What do you think the best squad for him is, if 2 point pieces are not possible and double swap is not viable? What squad do you normally play him in? I'm interested in your opinion because you've been very consistent in saying you believe that Boba is too strong.


I'm looking at it from a design standpoint--he has enough defensive abilities as is, without Wrist Cable's threat to melee pieces.
As for potential squads, I'm actually looking into that now. So far, I'm thinking the strongest might be Mando Neo-Crusader cannons (which very well might not exist as a viable squad for much longer.)

EDIT: It's not so much that I think he's too strong, as it is that he's undercosted (and the Wrist Cable thing).
Plus, in a meta where everyone keeps talking about how melee pieces are struggling against shooters, it perplexes me why anyone would give the top shooter such anti-melee SAs.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 3:15:22 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
As for potential squads, I'm actually looking into that now. So far, I'm thinking the strongest might be Mando Neo-Crusader cannons (which very well might not exist as a viable squad for much longer.)


Something like this sthlrd2 squad?:

--Mandalorian Assassin for Hire--
50 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire
38 Mandalore the Resurrector
28 Kelborn
28 Neo-Crusader Officer
27 Mirta Gev
12 Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 10 activations)

I've always thought that Vindicated squads are the most abusive use of the Neo-Crusader Officers, 30 base damage and not needing Mirta Gev are advantages, but Boba probably needs a look as well. Do you think the problem is the scope of the Neo-Crusader Officer's CE, or Boba himself, in this situation?
SignerJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 4:37:14 PM
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It's probably based on the Neo-Crusader's CE. Like you said, I'm not sure Boba-centered Crusader squads are much more dangerous than Vindicated-centered.

Honestly, if Boba's cost was bumped up some and Wrist Cable removed, I'd be perfectly happy with him. (Alternatively, if he's shown to not be undercosted, or there's a community census that he isn't, I guess I'd be accepting of that, too.)
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:31:19 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
SignerJ wrote:
As for potential squads, I'm actually looking into that now. So far, I'm thinking the strongest might be Mando Neo-Crusader cannons (which very well might not exist as a viable squad for much longer.)


Something like this sthlrd2 squad?:

--Mandalorian Assassin for Hire--
50 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire
38 Mandalore the Resurrector
28 Kelborn
28 Neo-Crusader Officer
27 Mirta Gev
12 Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 10 activations)

I've always thought that Vindicated squads are the most abusive use of the Neo-Crusader Officers, 30 base damage and not needing Mirta Gev are advantages, but Boba probably needs a look as well. Do you think the problem is the scope of the Neo-Crusader Officer's CE, or Boba himself, in this situation?



this would fall under the neo-crusader in my opinion.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:53:04 PM
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what about something like this?:

51 Yoda on Kybuck
50 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire
28 Mira of Nar Shaddaa
23 Captain Panaka
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
20 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x4
3 Mouse Droid

not super high on acts but has ways to deal with quite a bit if things go back to being more rock oriented.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 7:01:57 PM
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Musing on Wrist Cable for a bit, what if, instead of a save of 11, the targeted character could avoid it by making a successful attack roll against a def of somewhere from 16 to 20? This would make Wrist Cable unable to capture most bigger beatsticks, but instead be good at incapacitating non-combatants.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 7:08:54 PM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
Musing on Wrist Cable for a bit, what if, instead of a save of 11, the targeted character could avoid it by making a successful attack roll against a def of somewhere from 16 to 20? This would make Wrist Cable unable to capture most bigger beatsticks, but instead be good at incapacitating non-combatants.



not a bad idea at all really, and opens up a precedent for future abilities designed to hurt non-uniques/cheaper uniques while not hurting higher costing beats and stuff.
shmi15
Posted: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 7:59:34 PM
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Isn't there a way to make Bobba subject to Vong abilities? Or at least CE? If do I'm sure you can abuse him there
Mando
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 5:28:54 AM
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shmi15 wrote:
Isn't there a way to make Bobba subject to Vong abilities? Or at least CE? If do I'm sure you can abuse him there


Mezhan Kwaad is a shaper with the ability to turn someone into a Vong for a round. I've seen her used to turn Cad Bane into a Vong before and that is pretty deadly, so turning Boba into one would probably be just as good. This would be by far the most damage he could possibly do in a squad, but I'm not sure how viable it is. Probably you will get to him doing 120 dmg with Shaper + scarification since that combo costs only 40pts. I'll have to toy around with this idea......might have a competitive squad somewhere.
Caedus
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 7:10:25 AM
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Since this is an open discussion, let me start with a little back story. I was a dedicated player back in the WotC days. I left the game because the game was stopping production and I had no idea about this sight or other people trying to keep the game alive. I recently found out about all of this and became re-interested (if that's a word) in the game. I attended the regional tournament in WLafayette, IN. I met a lot of great people and had a blast!! I got my butt kicked, because I had an outdated, small act, WtoC only squad. Still had a blast. Learned a lot about the direction of the game and am excited. I read about things that are "broken" in the game, people getting crazy upset about a game. A GAME?? I am excited about the fact that other than getting some pieces for proxy's and multiples of characters, I don't have to really invest money into the game. Yes I am happy to donate but I don't have to spend Hundreds of $ to play a very entertaining game in a genre that I am a super DORK about.

In my opinion, I think the game is progressing wonderfully, I see people complaining about things that they want changed in the game because that's the way "WE" want it, and now that "WE" are in charge of it, "WE" think things should change at the drop of the hat. I disagree, we have a balance team in place. Let them fix it. It's a game, play it. I love it. I am hoping to get more than the 4 players in NW Ohio that I play with involved. I WANT A REGIONAL IN OHIO NEXT YEAR!!!!!
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 7:16:31 AM
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Caedus wrote:
Since this is an open discussion, let me start with a little back story. I was a dedicated player back in the WotC days. I left the game because the game was stopping production and I had no idea about this sight or other people trying to keep the game alive. I recently found out about all of this and became re-interested (if that's a word) in the game. I attended the regional tournament in WLafayette, IN. I met a lot of great people and had a blast!! I got my butt kicked, because I had an outdated, small act, WtoC only squad. Still had a blast. Learned a lot about the direction of the game and am excited. I read about things that are "broken" in the game, people getting crazy upset about a game. A GAME?? I am excited about the fact that other than getting some pieces for proxy's and multiples of characters, I don't have to really invest money into the game. Yes I am happy to donate but I don't have to spend Hundreds of $ to play a very entertaining game in a genre that I am a super DORK about.

In my opinion, I think the game is progressing wonderfully, I see people complaining about things that they want changed in the game because that's the way "WE" want it, and now that "WE" are in charge of it, "WE" think things should change at the drop of the hat. I disagree, we have a balance team in place. Let them fix it. It's a game, play it. I love it. I am hoping to get more than the 4 players in NW Ohio that I play with involved. I WANT A REGIONAL IN OHIO NEXT YEAR!!!!!


+1,000,000,000

If you're trying to introduce brand new players, you may want to use the 'leveling' system that kezzamachine has produced. It's some PDFs that introduce players with relatively simple squads so they aren't too overwhelmed all at once.

I'll look for a link, but someone else may find it before I do.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 7:21:14 AM
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Caedus wrote:

In my opinion, I think the game is progressing wonderfully, I see people complaining about things that they want changed in the game because that's the way "WE" want it, and now that "WE" are in charge of it, "WE" think things should change at the drop of the hat. I disagree, we have a balance team in place. Let them fix it. It's a game, play it. I love it. I am hoping to get more than the 4 players in NW Ohio that I play with involved. I WANT A REGIONAL IN OHIO NEXT YEAR!!!!!



well, welcome to bloomilk, and its great that you love the game, and are trying to expand/keep it going.

To just sit back and let the balance team fix the game...hmmmm the balance team is a brand new thing so the jury is out on how it will do. (personally I think they will do pretty well.) But that being said the balance team still needs us to bring things to their attention and to give them a different perspective, it doesn't mean EVERYTHING that is brought up needs to be changed, but it at least gives them a starting point on where some of the community is, and may help guide where some of their attention should be placed.

here's to wishing the balance team well!!!ThumbsUp
atmsalad
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 7:26:48 AM
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Those squads have always seemed incredibly gimmicky to me. Here is my best takes on a thrawn swap minus the imperial governor.


--Singular Swaping Boba--
50 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
13 Amanin Scout
11 Admiral Ozzel
11 Givin Black Sun Slicer
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
15 Rodian Brute x5
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 17 activations)
-This one has a lot of tools in the base squad. Triple override, swappable override, the amanin and Pallaeon. Lower on activations in that it can only get up to 23.


--High act single swap--
50 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
21 Marn Hierogryph
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
8 Gran Raider x2
3 Mouse Droid
18 Rodian Brute x6
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 18 activations)
-I am inclined to think that this would be the more prominent build minis the imperial governor. If you aren't partial to Pallaeon them you could swap him out for the amanin.
juice man
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 8:38:02 AM
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Caedus wrote:
Yes I am happy to donate but I don't have to spend Hundreds of $ to play a very entertaining game in a genre that I am a super DORK about.
I am hoping to get more than the 4 players in NW Ohio that I play with involved. I WANT A REGIONAL IN OHIO NEXT YEAR!!!!!
Welcome to the Dork Side. What's your name again?
gholli69
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 10:35:25 AM
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Juice, I believe his name is Sean booer, might not be spelled correctly and sorry for that but going off of memory as I only met Him once when he came to Indiana regional. He's a super nice guy, and hopefully he can get a playgroup together.
Caedus
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 11:54:42 AM
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gholli69 wrote:
Juice, I believe his name is Sean booer, might not be spelled correctly and sorry for that but going off of memory as I only met Him once when he came to Indiana regional. He's a super nice guy, and hopefully he can get a playgroup together.



Shawn Booher
General_Grievous
Posted: Thursday, August 6, 2015 11:54:43 AM
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Caedus wrote:
Since this is an open discussion, let me start with a little back story. I was a dedicated player back in the WotC days. I left the game because the game was stopping production and I had no idea about this sight or other people trying to keep the game alive. I recently found out about all of this and became re-interested (if that's a word) in the game. I attended the regional tournament in WLafayette, IN. I met a lot of great people and had a blast!! I got my butt kicked, because I had an outdated, small act, WtoC only squad. Still had a blast. Learned a lot about the direction of the game and am excited. I read about things that are "broken" in the game, people getting crazy upset about a game. A GAME?? I am excited about the fact that other than getting some pieces for proxy's and multiples of characters, I don't have to really invest money into the game. Yes I am happy to donate but I don't have to spend Hundreds of $ to play a very entertaining game in a genre that I am a super DORK about.

In my opinion, I think the game is progressing wonderfully, I see people complaining about things that they want changed in the game because that's the way "WE" want it, and now that "WE" are in charge of it, "WE" think things should change at the drop of the hat. I disagree, we have a balance team in place. Let them fix it. It's a game, play it. I love it. I am hoping to get more than the 4 players in NW Ohio that I play with involved. I WANT A REGIONAL IN OHIO NEXT YEAR!!!!!


Well said! And same here I love the much smaller financial investment while still having a solid fun fresh game. I think some more positive posts are a great idea too
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