|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
yay.. i'm back... thanks for the ban guys, I was able to do a lot of soul searching, and I decided what I have to say is to important to keep to myself:
ideas to help melee
1.i have been keeping up with the games in the vassal tournament and one of the things I am noticing is that movement before the first activation is huge for shooter squads and keeps shooters alive by moving things in front of people, attaching people to bodyguards etc, so to counter this how about more force users with things like:
Surprise attack
surprise push (force push before first activation, amazing)
surprise (insert force power--- lightning burst, etc.)
2. as said above movement is key and I love the coordinated movement things with the republic commandos, and would love to see that same type things with key sub factions such as covenant, could start some with council members, maybe even bring it out with families, such as the horns, skywalkers. Personally I love the idea of the V-set corran horn being played with his kids as like a strikeforce, brilliant.
more to come.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
|
Jonnyb815 wrote:UrbanShmi wrote:The piece wasn't designed to help melee, it was designed as a counter to activation control and CEs, both of which are things melee squads can struggle against, although certainly other squad types have similar issues. Tim was just pointing out that there are creative solutions out there that might not be the most obvious, but could still help in the short-term with the right build. There are some other things coming in the set that, while not direct melee boosts, can still help with the weaknesses of those squads. It's not just one right answer. It's about creative solutions. think we are talking about two different figures. Apologies, I thought we were still talking about Aves.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 522
Location: Chicago
|
Deaths_Baine wrote: and would love to see that same type things with key sub factions such as covenant,
you mean like the covenant consular?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
fingersandteeth wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote: and would love to see that same type things with key sub factions such as covenant,
you mean like the covenant consular? yeah, but they need better pieces to go with that movement.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
Deaths_Baine wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote: and would love to see that same type things with key sub factions such as covenant,
you mean like the covenant consular? yeah, but they need better pieces to go with that movement. +1 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/8/2008
Posts: 110
|
Frist of all I like Yaddle, Jedi Master but don't think it helps out much yet because there are not enough good pieces to go with her right.
UbanJedi, Lilly_Won, and I were looking at all of the Jedi that could be used with her and can up with a very short list.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/28/2008
Posts: 606
|
Lou wrote:Frist of all I like Yaddle, Jedi Master but don't think it helps out much yet because there are not enough good pieces to go with her right.
UbanJedi, Lilly_Won, and I were looking at all of the Jedi that could be used with her and can up with a very short list. I think that was the point but trying to make old figures more playable on a high cost figure I dont think is the best way to go about it. I understand the cost but disagree that there couldnt of been a work around to bring the cost dowwn. This whole we need to limit a figure because we are scared of future combos needs to be looked at. It is starting to limit creative building and the puzzle pieces that help create creative builds.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/26/2011
Posts: 915
|
@all Wow, so many offer still great ideas in this thread. I've offered some perspective, and more I am like an 'ideas shotgun', not all of the idea have been good, and many miss the mark...  Its great to see all the ideas that have been come up with, and even from people who were 'ban' ( i did not think such a thing happen on bloomilk, so its great to see you return and discuss the idea even more articulately) Maybe the route SWMplay suggest is a ways to go? maybe there is even more at play here than initially thought - maybe the game break up into different variant? maybe it is an unfixable problem as some have inbox to me, and I can hear where they come from. there seem in the player base, not only of SWMinis, but Imperial Assault and evermore even in videogame, that people play with unsportspersonly conduct, and who play to win at any cost, not play for fun and for the game. In that aspect, what are we to do? it is something that happen tournament/playgroup to playgroup... It is mostly at tournament, and particular abusive meta combo that people are somewhat objecting, that, and the unfun 'metagame' of "run the gauntlet" in official context, or OP meta pieces. giving old shooter maybe 'careful shot, +4/+10 if they don't move, alter how the force work, and alter jedi melee to automatically have lightsaber deflect/defense and evade and changing how shooter v melee is distinguish, these might be fruitful inroad to experiment. I look forward to seeing if anyone takes and experiment with some of the other ideas mention in this thread - there is so much here to try - and frankly, to see such life left in the game, and such passion around bloomilk it is as though Bloomilk rejuvenate and come alive again!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 171
|
Finally caught up reading this thread. My ideas on a cheap n/u piece. Nothing crazy to eliminate guns from the game just a simple thing to take them back a notch, IMO this kind of mechanic should have been in the game from the very beginning.
Force Fog 2 (Force 3, usable on this character’s turn: Until this start of this character’s next turn it gains the following Force ability: This character cannot be targeted by enemies farther than 6 squares away. Allies within 3 are treated as having cover and enemies get -4 attack when targeting from further than 6)
Force Fog 3 (Force 4, usable on this character’s turn: Until this start of this character’s next turn it gains the following Force ability: This character cannot be targeted by enemies farther than 6 squares away. Allies within 6 are treated as having cover and enemies get -4 attack when targeting from further than 6)
And something very similar to what Deri said and Daniel tweaked
Guardian or some other name ( When a follower with a force rating and melee attack within 3 would take damage from a non adjacent enemy, they take no damage when this character makes a save 11.)
Clearly this one is much more powerful, for the factions that need the most help against guns.
I feel like both of these are simple ideas that would help melee force users without taking guns out of the game.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
|
Something Like this Would Probably Work for OR/ Republic/ and New Republic:
Mirialan Jedi Guardian 22 Republic
HP: 80
Def: 18
ATK: 10
Dam: 20
Special Abilities:
Melee Attack: Double Attack
Guardian ( When an Ally with a force rating and Melee Attack within 3 would take damage from a non-Adjacent enemy, they take no damage, save 11)
Shien Style
Intuition
Force Powers
Force 2
Lightsaber Block
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2008
Posts: 153
|
The only way melee will ever be truly "fixed" is by addressing the actual problem: non-melee has UNLIMITED RANGE.
That's where the mistake developed. There are several ways to address this.
Characters further than 8 squares away from the attacker are considered to have Advantageous Cover (in addition to cover from walls or low objects).
When attacking a character farther than 8 squares away, damage from that attack is reduced by half.
Characters without melee cannot attack enemies farther than 8 squares away.
Attacks made against targets more than 8 squares away cannot deal additional damage granted by special abilities, force powers, or critical hits.
Any or all of these in some combination would be a fundamental change in the rules, but one that frankly should have been included from the start. FFG nailed it with Imperial Assault.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 1,098
Location: Kokomo
|
Boris wrote:The only way melee will ever be truly "fixed" is by addressing the actual problem: non-melee has UNLIMITED RANGE.
That's where the mistake developed. There are several ways to address this.
Characters further than 8 squares away from the attacker are considered to have Advantageous Cover (in addition to cover from walls or low objects).
When attacking a character farther than 8 squares away, damage from that attack is reduced by half.
Characters without melee cannot attack enemies farther than 8 squares away.
Attacks made against targets more than 8 squares away cannot deal additional damage granted by special abilities, force powers, or critical hits.
Any or all of these in some combination would be a fundamental change in the rules, but one that frankly should have been included from the start. FFG nailed it with Imperial Assault.
Instead of changing the rules wouldn't it be simpler to create abilities that effectively do the same things? For instance, Unyielding: Attacks made by enemies more than 8 squares away cannot deal additional damage granted by special abilities, force powers, or critical hits to this character. Then said abilities could also be granted via CE or Camaraderie as well.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
|
Sthlrd2 wrote:Finally caught up reading this thread. My ideas on a cheap n/u piece. Nothing crazy to eliminate guns from the game just a simple thing to take them back a notch, IMO this kind of mechanic should have been in the game from the very beginning.
Force Fog 2 (Force 3, usable on this character’s turn: Until this start of this character’s next turn it gains the following Force ability: This character cannot be targeted by enemies farther than 6 squares away. Allies within 3 are treated as having cover and enemies get -4 attack when targeting from further than 6)
Force Fog 3 (Force 4, usable on this character’s turn: Until this start of this character’s next turn it gains the following Force ability: This character cannot be targeted by enemies farther than 6 squares away. Allies within 6 are treated as having cover and enemies get -4 attack when targeting from further than 6)
And something very similar to what Deri said and Daniel tweaked
Guardian or some other name ( When a follower with a force rating and melee attack within 3 would take damage from a non adjacent enemy, they take no damage when this character makes a save 11.)
Clearly this one is much more powerful, for the factions that need the most help against guns.
I feel like both of these are simple ideas that would help melee force users without taking guns out of the game.
Just pointing out that Force Fog already exists. The 3rd clause grants non-Unique allies Stealth.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
|
DarkDracul wrote:Boris wrote:The only way melee will ever be truly "fixed" is by addressing the actual problem: non-melee has UNLIMITED RANGE.
That's where the mistake developed. There are several ways to address this.
Characters further than 8 squares away from the attacker are considered to have Advantageous Cover (in addition to cover from walls or low objects).
When attacking a character farther than 8 squares away, damage from that attack is reduced by half.
Characters without melee cannot attack enemies farther than 8 squares away.
Attacks made against targets more than 8 squares away cannot deal additional damage granted by special abilities, force powers, or critical hits.
Any or all of these in some combination would be a fundamental change in the rules, but one that frankly should have been included from the start. FFG nailed it with Imperial Assault.
Instead of changing the rules wouldn't it be simpler to create abilities that effectively do the same things? For instance, Unyielding: Attacks made by enemies more than 8 squares away cannot deal additional damage granted by special abilities, force powers, or critical hits to this character. Then said abilities could also be granted via CE or Camaraderie as well. I have to agree with Brian here. Changing a Core Mechanic like that would be detrimental to the game as a whole. So many pieces have been built around the idea that they are not close range attackers that it would completely destroy a lot of them. Also it would make stealth virtually useless, thereby causing that to be fixed, Which then creates a ripple effect. I personally Think that a new ability or Commander effect type is the way to go to help protect older pieces, and provide playability.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
|
Boris wrote:The only way melee will ever be truly "fixed" is by addressing the actual problem: non-melee has UNLIMITED RANGE.
That's where the mistake developed. There are several ways to address this.
Characters further than 8 squares away from the attacker are considered to have Advantageous Cover (in addition to cover from walls or low objects). Like the Advantageous cover bit, maybe from range 13 out. Do you mean a +12 Def in cover?
|
|
|
Guest |