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Which pre-game ability happens first? Can the Yammosk steal the new commander's CE?
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Telepathic Insight happens before the commanders are switched. Yammosk wrote:During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character gains this commander effect and any faction specific effects become Yuuzhan Vong specific effects.
Pellaeon wrote:At the start of the skirmish, after set-up, you may replace one allied Imperial commander on your squad with an Imperial character of equal or lesser cost.
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swinefeld wrote:Telepathic Insight happens before the commanders are switched. Yammosk wrote:During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character gains this commander effect and any faction specific effects become Yuuzhan Vong specific effects.
Pellaeon wrote:At the start of the skirmish, after set-up, you may replace one allied Imperial commander on your squad with an Imperial character of equal or lesser cost. Wow, another advantage imperial. So Imps can swap out a commander that has his CE stolen (thus it becoming useless), or they could swap in a commander that is then immune to having his CE stolen. Wish it weren't so.
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TimmerB123 wrote:swinefeld wrote:Telepathic Insight happens before the commanders are switched. Yammosk wrote:During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character gains this commander effect and any faction specific effects become Yuuzhan Vong specific effects.
Pellaeon wrote:At the start of the skirmish, after set-up, you may replace one allied Imperial commander on your squad with an Imperial character of equal or lesser cost. Wow, another advantage imperial. So Imps can swap out a commander that has his CE stolen (thus it becoming useless), or they could swap in a commander that is then immune to having his CE stolen. Wish it weren't so. Theoretically, I suppose. Generally though, it'll be Thrawn's swap (or Opportunist) stolen, and Thrawn is ESSENTIAL if he's in the build I would think. Or it could be Daala whose CE is stolen (Charging Fire is GREAT for Vong, though a lot already have it), and you definitely don't want to take her out.
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pegolego wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:swinefeld wrote:Telepathic Insight happens before the commanders are switched. Yammosk wrote:During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character gains this commander effect and any faction specific effects become Yuuzhan Vong specific effects.
Pellaeon wrote:At the start of the skirmish, after set-up, you may replace one allied Imperial commander on your squad with an Imperial character of equal or lesser cost. Wow, another advantage imperial. So Imps can swap out a commander that has his CE stolen (thus it becoming useless), or they could swap in a commander that is then immune to having his CE stolen. Wish it weren't so. Theoretically, I suppose. Generally though, it'll be Thrawn's swap (or Opportunist) stolen, and Thrawn is ESSENTIAL if he's in the build I would think. Or it could be Daala whose CE is stolen (Charging Fire is GREAT for Vong, though a lot already have it), and you definitely don't want to take her out. Daala isn't part of the equation as her CE affects troopers and, so far, no Vong troopers.
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I have a question, is the CE the Yamosk player chooses ACTUALLY stolen from the enemy commander. Does that commander count as no longer having the effect?
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TimmerB123 wrote:Wow, another advantage imperial. So Imps can swap out a commander that has his CE stolen (thus it becoming useless), or they could swap in a commander that is then immune to having his CE stolen.
Wish it weren't so. How does the stolen CE become useless?
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Wow, another advantage imperial. So Imps can swap out a commander that has his CE stolen (thus it becoming useless), or they could swap in a commander that is then immune to having his CE stolen.
Wish it weren't so.
How does it become useless? (looks like juiceman beat me to that one) The Yammosk had already gained it as a CE it wouldn't then lose it as it'd be no different than if the Commander were defeated. Similarly Pellaeon doesn't classify that character as never having been in the squad, which raises an interesting scenario that should an imperial commander ever have reinforcements you could make use of the reinforcements then swap that commander out.
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Technically, the replacement that effect like Pelleon's CE and Versatality do essentially remove the character from ever being in your squad. Because of Unique, it has to be this way, or they wouldn't work as intended.
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So what about if the commander who's CE is stolen dies? Does the Yammosk lose it too?
Con Artist has shaken everything in my brain up. Let's please never use that ability again.
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TimmerB123 wrote:So what about if the commander who's CE is stolen dies? Does the Yammosk lose it too?
Con Artist has shaken everything in my brain up. Let's please never use that ability again. Run less clugy squads, problem solv'ed... 
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TimmerB123 wrote:So what about if the commander who's CE is stolen dies? Does the Yammosk lose it too?
Con Artist has shaken everything in my brain up. Let's please never use that ability again. No, the Yammosk copies the CE during setup and becomes a commander in its own right. Con Artist only makes a character subject to the enemy CE while it is in play.
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Dragon Poker or Royal Fizzbin, anyone?
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juice man wrote:Dragon Poker or Royal Fizzbin, anyone? I drew a shralk.
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TimmerB123 wrote:So what about if the commander who's CE is stolen dies? Does the Yammosk lose it too?
Con Artist has shaken everything in my brain up. Let's please never use that ability again.  This isn't even about con artist.
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fingersandteeth wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:So what about if the commander who's CE is stolen dies? Does the Yammosk lose it too?
Con Artist has shaken everything in my brain up. Let's please never use that ability again. This isn't even about con artist. Stealing CEs and how it interacts based on what happens to the commander (disrupted, swapped out, killed, etc) is still very confusing (and if I am not mistaken STILL not fully resolved for Con Artist) and has muddied the waters (at least in my brain) all together. That's why I brought it up.
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I'm really not sure what's confusing about it.
The character with Telepathic Insight gains the CE. After that it doesn't matter what happens to the commander. They could die, get swapped out, be disrupted, betray, whatever. The only time the enemy commander matters even a little bit is when you are picking the CE. After that, just pretend that the CE is printed on the Yammosk's card, and forget about the enemy piece that had it.
I'm also not sure what is really confusing about Con Artist. The character with Con Artist becomes a recipient for the CE. If the CE is disrupted, or the piece is killed, or swapped out, or whatever, then they no longer benefit from the CE, just like all the other recipients.
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Con Artist is confusing because there is an unresolved ruling with it. (Unless I missed it.) But that's an issue with Versatility and Con Artist, neither of which are the two abilities at issue here. Con Artist and Versatility: http://www.bloomilk.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13181&p=2
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Echo24 wrote:
I'm also not sure what is really confusing about Con Artist. The character with Con Artist becomes a recipient for the CE. If the CE is disrupted, or the piece is killed, or swapped out, or whatever, then they no longer benefit from the CE, just like all the other recipients.
Didn't you screw this very thing up vs Ricky in the GenCon top 8?
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TimmerB123 wrote:Echo24 wrote:
I'm also not sure what is really confusing about Con Artist. The character with Con Artist becomes a recipient for the CE. If the CE is disrupted, or the piece is killed, or swapped out, or whatever, then they no longer benefit from the CE, just like all the other recipients.
Didn't you screw this very thing up vs Ricky in the GenCon top 8? Yeah, but it's been ruled on, so I'm no longer confused. I still don't understand what you don't understand. What we were confused about also doesn't seem related to this thread other than very broadly "It has to do with Con Artist". Do you just not grok Con Artist at all? I'm not even sure what the confusion in that other thread is; I understand Sithborg's original explanation. But then he makes some cryptic comments which make it a little confusing, but I don't see any real counterarguments to his explanation other than "That's not how I read it".
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