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Poll Question : What should we do with Daala
Choice Votes Statistics
Leave her alone, she is fine 4 12.121212 %
Change her before Gencon 12 36.363636 %
Change her after Gencon 16 48.484848 %
Ban her completely 1 3.030303 %

How should we proceed with Daala Options
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:33:42 AM
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The rules for the 3-2-1 scoring system and 10 point gambit were both changed due to a poll and discussion, so why not do the same for Daala?
theultrastar
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:22:22 AM
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Interesting idea. I mean 10pt gambit was pushed through with zero playtesting, 3-2-1 was pushed through due to NZ's remarkable playtesting with the idea. The same conditions here with Daala. Everyone is sick of this piece, it's a huge NPE and quality players are quitting the game due to this piece. Lets stop the problem here and have an enjoyable World Championship.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:22:32 AM
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That's not exactly true. There was a poll, but that was just to get a sense of where the community was at. There is an official rules update that happens every year in July and January. Sometimes there are no changes, sometimes there are. The July rules update just happened, and that is when the change to 3-2-1 and 10pt gambit happened.

Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:16:04 PM
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no Changing a character is a lot different than map changes.

It has to be after Gencon and really don't think she is that strong with top level people bring Yodabuck. The problem is that she changes the meta even without being at a tournament thats the problem I have with her. Its way too close to Gencon for any more changes.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:17:55 PM
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theultrastar wrote:
Interesting idea. I mean 10pt gambit was pushed through with zero playtesting, 3-2-1 was pushed through due to NZ's remarkable playtesting with the idea. The same conditions here with Daala. Everyone is sick of this piece, it's a huge NPE and quality players are quitting the game due to this piece. Lets stop the problem here and have an enjoyable World Championship.


I don't know if it had zero play testing. Its pretty easy to play out what happens in this game in your head and its not like either change had not been talked about for years. Some people did play test it
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:22:47 PM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
no Changing a character is a lot different than map changes.

It has to be after Gencon and really don't think she is that strong with top level people bring Yodabuck. The problem is that she changes the meta even without being at a tournament thats the problem I have with her. Its way too close to Gencon for any more changes.


The only change I would be okay with seeing is reserves being nerfed, but personally I would like it replaced by something.(frankly by the end if she is nerfed the card is going to be pointless because she will be so hugely different, lol) I agree with you through, at this point we have what? A week and a half before gencon, people have been building and play testing for a while. It is quite simply to close to the date to make changes or ban her.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:30:54 PM
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I am a Errata happy and change happy. This comes from my days with Star wars CCG. lol
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:34:25 PM
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Why would anyone bring Daala to GenCon? It will be crawling with Daala hate and even if you win it would just prove the piece is broken. It doesn't say anything about whether or not you are a good player. Where is the upside?
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:40:20 PM
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It will take skill to beat the Scizzors squads with her. Yobuck, Durge and plenty of others. If she wins I will be impressed. I still want to see we changed, but not this close to gencon.
jak
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:49:07 PM
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Daala's the ultimate crutch pieceCursing

any one who brings her to GenCon is saying"my playing skills, and imagination are sub par, so I brought the biggest NPE ever to compensate for my short comings."

Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:10:42 PM
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jak wrote:
Daala's the ultimate crutch pieceCursing

any one who brings her to GenCon is saying"my playing skills, and imagination are sub par, so I brought the biggest NPE ever to compensate for my short comings."


I disagree. The straight forward builds yes don't take much skill but the ones that have the sled with the commander and what you change out and how you use it does take skill.
thereisnotry
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:26:22 PM
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Daala does take skill to play well. I don't think anyone in NZ would say that Dr Daman is a bad player with a good squad...he's one of their best players, and I don't want to see anyone take that credit away from him. My sig on Gamers includes something that David Weeks once said: "Don't give the tool more credit than the master." I think we need to be careful to distinguish between an overpowered piece and a skilled player.

Daala does warp the meta, though. That's the issue. I miss my jedi; their lightsabers looked so cool....

I would like to see her disappear, but with only 2 weeks left, I don't think that nerfing a piece would be a good idea. Changing the gambit and scoring systems doesn't really change gameplay, other than encouraging full wins more heavily (which is what should've been happening anyway). But banning a gatekeeper will completely change everything. We've made our bed; now we have to lie in it.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:46:30 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
That's not exactly true. There was a poll, but that was just to get a sense of where the community was at. There is an official rules update that happens every year in July and January. Sometimes there are no changes, sometimes there are. The July rules update just happened, and that is when the change to 3-2-1 and 10pt gambit happened.




I love it, so the communitty had no input or say in the score system or the gambit system? amazing. I love how the game still appears to be ran by a small committee behind the scenes dictating what happens for a game that is being ran by the communitty lol. I mean some people on here have said that the 10 point gambit has been talked about and play tested by others.... who? i have seen 0 threads about it until now. I have not heard of anyone using 10 point gambit on vassal or in any tournaments until now, all of these happened after the rules change was announced. I mean even now, at the time of this posting more people want her changed BEFORE gencon then after, but it will never happen, I voted for after gencon myself, but my point is for a communitty game, the communitty sure seems to have little control over how the game is played.... heck we can't even run what we find fun anymore because of this sl$$bag BigGrin
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:19:09 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
That's not exactly true. There was a poll, but that was just to get a sense of where the community was at. There is an official rules update that happens every year in July and January. Sometimes there are no changes, sometimes there are. The July rules update just happened, and that is when the change to 3-2-1 and 10pt gambit happened.




I love it, so the communitty had no input or say in the score system or the gambit system? amazing. I love how the game still appears to be ran by a small committee behind the scenes dictating what happens for a game that is being ran by the communitty lol. I mean some people on here have said that the 10 point gambit has been talked about and play tested by others.... who? i have seen 0 threads about it until now. I have not heard of anyone using 10 point gambit on vassal or in any tournaments until now, all of these happened after the rules change was announced. I mean even now, at the time of this posting more people want her changed BEFORE gencon then after, but it will never happen, I voted for after gencon myself, but my point is for a communitty game, the communitty sure seems to have little control over how the game is played.... heck we can't even run what we find fun anymore because of this sl$$bag BigGrin


I am assuming that the pole he is talking about is the one that Bill started in response to members of the community having some good healthy discussions about both 10 point gambit and 3-2-1 scoring. Bills poll was a direct response to the community not even asking for a change, but discussing different ideas. (At least that is how the starter of the threads meant them to be)

Brad (I believe it's brad) even said that what got him looking at implementing the changes was the threads and all the talk that was generated. The community voted 80% to put 10 point gambit in before gencon, and 70% for 3-2-1 scoring before. We talked about it, we voted, they listened and put it into effect... Sounds better than WOTC to me. With daala, they errated her once and I don't doubt they are thinking about doing the it again.

Several people think 10 point gambit should have been play tested first. It's not that hard to see what the result is going to be. Tons of people have said 5 points just isn't worth it. Now gambit is worth it again, it's a mechanic of the game to encourage engagement. Are people still going to try to abuse it?(find away around engagement) Of freaking course! Gambit is still drawing you into the center though, like it needs to.

DonStamos
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:22:02 PM
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Wasn't it mentioned that a decision had already been made before that poll was put up? Not that I'm saying the community is left in the dark or powerless (I don't think we are), but I remember reading about how it was a poll to test the opinion waters and that the decision might be changed if opinion warranted.

Of course, I might have failed my save on a Jedi Mind Trick, too.

*edit*

Meant to click the "after Gencon" option. My bad. :-[
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:27:33 PM
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DonStamos wrote:
Wasn't it mentioned that a decision had already been made before that poll was put up? Not that I'm saying the community is left in the dark or powerless (I don't think we are), but I remember reading about how it was a poll to test the opinion waters and that the decision might be changed if opinion warranted.

Of course, I might have failed my save on a Jedi Mind Trick, too.

*edit*

Meant to click the "after Gencon" option. My bad. :-[


It is my understanding that a decision was reached based on the polls and threads preceding bills. Ie threads and polls that were started by the community.
DonStamos
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:29:15 PM
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Ah, I see. Just wanted to be clear on what I thought I read, is all. :)
Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:41:31 PM
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We do have a whole new set coming out after Gencon so maybe it fixes the problem or at least maybe they can change somethings with Vset 9 rather than banning or Errata.

That being said I think people will get more create at gencon and work around her.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:52:29 PM
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I expect that no more than two players who have a previous top 8 finish at GenCon will play Daala. I expect that all of those players know about Daala and will bring a squad that is not an auto loss to her. (Although I would expect some rockish squads that are at a disadvantage to her... so it won't be all Daala and anti Daala.). I expect that there will be a lot of variety among those squads.

atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:52:54 PM
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DonStamos wrote:
Ah, I see. Just wanted to be clear on what I thought I read, is all. :)


No worries =)
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