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Are Shaman Aura and Force Barrier force abilities like Bastilla's Advanced Battle Meditation that are interrupted by; making an attack, spending a force point, making a save roll, taking damage?
Player A - Felucian Shaman activates Shaman Aura adjacent to a Felucian
Player B - Shoots the adjacent Felucian with a character with Splash 10
Are these true?
1. The saves for splash are not opptional and must be made.
2. Player B is the active player and gets to pick the order and can select the Felucian Shaman to make the save roll first.
3. Shaman Aura is interrupted when the save roll is made.
4. Shaman Aura is interrupted before the adjacent Felucian takes damage and can not be used to save the Felucian.
Shaman Aura (Force 1, replaces turn; Until the start of this character's next turn, this character gains the following Force ability: Felucian followers within 6 squares cannot have their Hit Points reduced below 10; save 6. Allied Felucians remove 10 damage when they activate within 6 squares of this character.)
Also, is the Baran Do Sage's Force Barrier interrupted when it makes a splash save or takes damage and a twin attack would go through without needing to make the Force Barrier save roll?
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Yes, they are Force Abilities that do not last until the end of the skirmish so they are turned off if the character does any of the things you listed. 1. True 2. True 3. True 4. Wow. Tough question. Splash doesn't appear in the "resolving effects" list. Google says I had asked it just three months ago. I already forgot about asking and I didn't get an answer from Sithborg, but urbanjedi generally knows what he's talking about. Resolving effects: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10805When does Splash trigger: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&m=157213So assuming that Splash does in fact trigger on Step 10... then Splash is completed before the attack damage is applied. So the save happens before the damage is applied and the Force Ability is turned off before the Felucian is defeated.
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Dang, Force abilities are just so fragile.  Mira should have toasted that Felucian Swarm in last nights game. Oh well, next time.
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Oh - and the answer changes only slightly if Splash triggers only after the entire attack is resolved. If that is the ruling (and I think the above is correct so probably just ignore this...), then if the attack hits then the damage from the attack is applied first while Shaman Aura is still on. If the attack misses, then the attacker still chooses the order of the saves so the Force Ability is turned off before the Felucian rolls the Splash save.
In practice, the defender usually chooses the order of saves for things like Grenades and Splash, but that's just because he is holding the dice and it doesn't matter. If it does matter, the attacker gets to decide the order because it's his ability that triggers the saves.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Oh - and the answer changes only slightly if Splash triggers only after the entire attack is resolved. If that is the ruling (and I think the above is correct so probably just ignore this...), then if the attack hits then the damage from the attack is applied first while Shaman Aura is still on. If the attack misses, then the attacker still chooses the order of the saves so the Force Ability is turned off before the Felucian rolls the Splash save.
In practice, the defender usually chooses the order of saves for things like Grenades and Splash, but that's just because he is holding the dice and it doesn't matter. If it does matter, the attacker gets to decide the order because it's his ability that triggers the saves. Sweet, thanks flying arrow! Your the bomb!
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FlyingArrow wrote:Oh - and the answer changes only slightly if Splash triggers only after the entire attack is resolved. If that is the ruling (and I think the above is correct so probably just ignore this...), then if the attack hits then the damage from the attack is applied first while Shaman Aura is still on. If the attack misses, then the attacker still chooses the order of the saves so the Force Ability is turned off before the Felucian rolls the Splash save.
In practice, the defender usually chooses the order of saves for things like Grenades and Splash, but that's just because he is holding the dice and it doesn't matter. If it does matter, the attacker gets to decide the order because it's his ability that triggers the saves. Doesn't the Simultaneous rule say otherwise? If effects are happening to one players characters, that player chooses the order. If both players then the acting player goes first, then the other player goes, but each player still chooses their own order.
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Gah! You are correct. I mixed up the rule for effects that trigger simultaneously and the rule for when multiple characters are simultaneously affected by the same effect. (And by mixed up I mean I didn't know they were different rules.) EDIT: Hmmm... after a bit more research I'm still not sure which way it goes. Glossary: If several effects happen at the same time, play them out one after the other. Usually it doesn't matter what order these effects happen in. If it does matter, use the following rules. Player's Choice: If several effects apply to one player's character or characters, that player determines the order. Acting Player First: If the effects apply to more than one player's characters, the acting player (the one whose character is doing something) goes first. Sithborg: The acting player is fairly nebelous. Pretty much, you are the acting player for your abilities. So with Grenades, that are simultaneous, the Grenades player chooses the order in the Grenades saves are made. I do think many players have gotten lax about it, since there are rare situations it matters. http://www.bloomilk.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12140Resolving effects list: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10805The resolving effects list gets quite messy if each player chooses their order and the acting player's characters have to go first. I'll keep poking around...
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Doesn't your quote from sithborg clear this up? Splash doesn't seam any different to me than grenades?
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@ FA. Truly your efforts at looking through backlogs of rules posts are greatly appreciated. SB's grenades comment does seem to apply to Splash as well.
Think I was confused with "several effects happening at the same time" and "several characters being affected at the same time".
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Okay - I think I see the issue. It seems to me (so take this with a grain of salt because I could be wrong) that the glossary entry is referring to multiple 'effects' (meaning CE/SA/FP) happening with the same trigger. But with Grenades or Splash, that is one effect. It affects multiple characters, though. The effect is resolved solely through the resolving effects list - the simultaneous effect rule doesn't come into play.
You just resolve either one using the resolving effects list, ignoring the parts that don't apply.
For Splash, there is no targeting or attack so only these steps apply: 4 (save made at this step), 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 (returning to step 4 to pick another character).
Grenades has an initial target but then the affected characters are not targeted individually, so it adds a couple more relevant steps: 2, 3, 4 (save made at this step), 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 (returning to step 4 to pick another character).
The player with the ability chooses the order in which characters are affected, as Sithborg indicated.
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