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Poll Question : Gencon is over how do we proceed with daala?
Choice Votes Statistics
she didnt win, so leave alone. 11 26.829268 %
she's still too meta warping, change her. 11 26.829268 %
only thing she needs is reserves dropped. 7 17.073170 %
Didn't win but total npe, ban her. 12 29.268292 %

Post Gencon Daala Options
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:04:16 AM
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easy way to see how people feel about her now. I think these are the prevailing opinions about her, if I did not include something, write it in.
gholli69
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:19:24 PM
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I voted didn't win leave her alone. I played in the championship at gencon and saw firsthand what she could do when given her fair chance. Yes atm salad took her all the way to the final table, however I am from the same playgroup as etienne and I don't think he felt as though he had many "easy" wins in getting there. She is a very good piece that in the hands of a skilled player is a very difficult matchup for almost anything out there, but so are a lot of other things. I will say that if you do roll the reserves in a game it does indeed give the daala player a much better chance of winning, but in all honesty that can be said anytime someone gets 20 extra points to replenish their squad with. However, I played daala with snowtroopers in the championship and only managed to get the reserves 1 time all day out of about 25-30 inits. so I don't think that is truly broken. I feel that the steps already taken water her down just enough to do what she was intended to do all along, which is give the Imp. faction a strong viable option for a non thrawn squad, and I think time will show that to be the case in the next 6-12 months.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:05:12 PM
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I can take that as a good strong reply, but as of right now there are 6 vote to change her and 3 to drop reserves, so 9 want her changed in some form or fashion, compared to 3 leave her alone... obviously a lot of ppl still have not voted, but if the current trend continues, it would appear the community still does not like what she does to the game regardless of brokenness, she is still having way too big an impact on the meta and the tournament scene, solely by the mention of her name, and that is just as bad for the game as her initial power level.
SignerJ
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:14:00 PM
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I have never played a game with or against her, so my opinion is probably not worth much, but, if she is to be changed, I'm still in favor of finding a way to remove Pellaeon from her builds. I think that would fix a lot of the issues players have with her, without completely nerfing her squads.

As for my opinion on if she should be changed or not... I don't know. I guess I'm neutral, since I have no experience with her.
countrydude82487
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:41:22 PM
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For me she is not that broken. She is beatable, The issue comes from some of the other boosts the faction has. I Ended With 4th overall in the championship. I lost to Daala 2x but also won against her once. The snow-troopers are kill-able and have been hurt by 10 point gambit so that is not an issue. The elite scout troops are the pain in the butt. but honestly i don't feel she needs errata'd. IF they were to do so i would still prefer her to be banned due to complications and confusion aspect.
TheHutts
Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:25:37 PM
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In an ideal world, I'd like to see some changes made to Daala. I think she should lose reserves - in my last five tournament games against her, there have been reserves early enough to make a significant difference in four of them. And she's tier 1 without them, so she doesn't need them.

Of the three main squad types:
- Elite Scout Troopers - are fine, good strong squad, but not OP IMO.
- Dr Daman's Raxus - noone else has managed to do anything with Raxus, so I think it's more of a reflection that he's a very good player who's well practiced with his squad. If I do have a concern in his setup, it's maybe Needa, who is a lot on top of the other attack boosts his squad gets, and means that he basically never misses against moderate defense targets.
- Snowtroopers - I am a little concerned about Snowtroopers still - I know they didn't make the top 4 at GenCon, but after running them at the NZ National tournament I felt like I had masses of power at my disposal and there wasn't much that most of the other squads I played could do against mine - all my wins were fairly comfortable, and three of my five wins were big pastings that were demoralising for my opponent. I would support a change in the Snowtrooper Officer's Rapport from 2 to 1. Snowtroopers are a very one dimensional squad in some ways, and they're probably less likely to win tournaments than the other builds, since they have less tricks. But at the same time, they're very extreme, and make life very un-fun for some squads.

Both of these changes are relatively minor though, and it might not be worth the administrative/confusion effort of a change on top of the previous change to enforce them.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:15:10 AM
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Reserves are fine, it's that raxus and snow troops getting charging. You change prideful to not effect low cost pieces and scouts are nerfed because they can't have diplomats be effective. I vote change charging to not apply to the low cost troops. Daala swarms are bad for the game, changing reserves won't change that.

Weeks
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:30:47 AM
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Even had Daala won she isn't broken. Disruptive, high defense characters, gallop/strafe all can do well against her of played well.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:41:54 AM
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Weeks wrote:
Even had Daala won she isn't broken. Disruptive, high defense characters, gallop/strafe all can do well against her of played well.



no part of this poll is about if she is broken. She is definitely a negative play experience, and its not that she can't be beaten, its that it is so hard to beat her with more then like 2 squad types, she limits the meta and that is why I think she needs changed. I mean the poll so far is very skewed to people wanting her changed/banned like 74% of people so far want her changed in some form or fashion, heck it says something that the leading selection is ban her.... if that doesn't say something about how the community feels about her, then I don't know what does.
General_Grievous
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:54:39 PM
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I agree with a new card and that sep ability where you can only have one other imperial commander in your squad.
Dr Daman
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:35:53 PM
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General_Grievous wrote:
I agree with a new card and that sep ability where you can only have one other imperial commander in your squad.


That will kill her and we'll be back to having Thrawn as the only option for competitive play in imperials. Everyone thought Poggle was an NPE and Mace as well, but we all got over that. I say at the most, drop reserves. Just my opinion.
DARPH NADER
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:46:47 PM
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Dr Daman wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
I agree with a new card and that sep ability where you can only have one other imperial commander in your squad.


That will kill her and we'll be back to having Thrawn as the only option for competitive play in imperials. Everyone thought Poggle was an NPE and Mace as well, but we all got over that. I say at the most, drop reserves. Just my opinion.


+1

A number of us discussed this topic this morning before leaving GenCon and we all were in agreement that dropping reserves is the proper (additional) corrective action needed.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:00:31 PM
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Dr Daman wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
I agree with a new card and that sep ability where you can only have one other imperial commander in your squad.


That will kill her and we'll be back to having Thrawn as the only option for competitive play in imperials. Everyone thought Poggle was an NPE and Mace as well, but we all got over that. I say at the most, drop reserves. Just my opinion.




Mace and Poggle were/are NPE's for different reasons, mace because if he rolls hot he just destroys you. Poggle is because 2 point bombs doing 20 were retarded from the get go and it added to the activation explosion. But these both had simple counters, the sets before mace had a total of 11 pieces with parry and 1 with makashi mastery. The sets from Mace up have 17 people with parry, 4 with makashi mastery and 2 with regular makashi if you and in the set mace came out in the amount of parry/makashi/makashi mastery was DOUBLED, see there was an easy fix to him, problem is it was a fix for all melee pieces making it extremely hard to run melee beats, add on that the ridiculous power of Daala, and no wonder the meta is so stricken. Poggle was countered with things like momaw, celeste, disruptive, etc. not so easy to try and fix daala with outside pieces.
SignerJ
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:07:20 PM
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I seem to recall many people talking about how the Lancer Droid was a major NPE (before all of the counters came out in recent sets), and yet that piece was never banned.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17:03 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
I seem to recall many people talking about how the Lancer Droid was a major NPE (before all of the counters came out in recent sets), and yet that piece was never banned.


I would say that those counters that came out for lancers (Buzz and Lin are the counters I am thinking about) were not for lancers. they were for the Vehicles, matter of fact I know that is why they were made the designers said so themselves. (may never admit it openly but its there.) And it is way easier to counter lancers then it is daala. (Outside of silver bullets which many ppl hate.) Djem so, riposte, heck even ion gun are all effective counters to the lancer, that can go on multiple people in multiple factions. oh I almost forgot jedi reflexes and force attuned reflexes.
theultrastar
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:19:49 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
I seem to recall many people talking about how the Lancer Droid was a major NPE (before all of the counters came out in recent sets), and yet that piece was never banned.


And that means...what?

First off Lancer is a WoTC piece, no one wanted to ban Wizards pieces. Daala is a Vset piece. One everyone is complaining about 2 Vsets later! She is a NPE that the designers created, as such she can be corrected. Poggle should be corrected while we are at it. Deri mentioned a Vset wide errata. I think that is a very intelligent thing to do personally.

Instead of saying we didn't do this when that came out, so Daala should stay. And we will just suffer through her. The difference back then, there wasn't an alternate Star Wars Minis game out there to go play. More than ever, this version of the game needs to be as fan friendly as possible.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:37:07 PM
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Reserves can go, I am down for that. I don't know of anyone that played my squad that thought it was an NPE though. Play it on your A game and your opponent is going to have a rough time. Make some play mistakes and you shall get railed.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:40:14 PM
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may not be an NPE for the top 8 players at gencon. looks like you ran the gambit of top players (undefeated no less). so for the casual/new/middle level player it is definitely a NPE.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:42:48 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
may not be an NPE for the top 8 players at gencon. looks like you ran the gambit of top players (undefeated no less). so for the casual/new/middle level player it is definitely a NPE.


Fair enough, I definitely had a lot of great opponents and hard fought matches.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 4:11:45 PM
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The game has any number of natural elements that can be an NPE for new players. I am not saying this is good, but comparatively my squad wasn't an NPE. I didn't abuse some game mechanic to out act and smash you. I never ever locked out my opponents out to win. I can't even shoot more than 7 times in a single round. I only used 3 diplomats and my guys could only ever hit for 30. What is an NPE about it?
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