Out Act and Smash! (Bane/Blue, NPE Extreme, etc)
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10
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35.714285
%
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Gallop/Strafe (Skybuck, Durge, etc)
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2
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7.142857
%
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Tank Squads (Mace/Gowk, Caedus/Malgus)
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1
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3.571428
%
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Self Destruct and Cloak (Nomb Bombs and Klats)
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2
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7.142857
%
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Death Shots (naboo)
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5
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17.857142
%
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Daala (Snow Troops, Raxus Primes and Elite Scouts)
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2
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7.142857
%
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Activation Control (Dodonna, Mandalorian Tac, etc)
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1
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3.571428
%
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Bastilla's Advanced Battle Meditation
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1
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3.571428
%
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Being Locked out (override)
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4
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14.285714
%
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011 Posts: 951
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Last Night on Sith Holo NPE's were one of the high dollar topics. So that brings up the question, what's your biggest NPE? Mine is high activation squads that seek to out activate you to gain an advantage. Personally I think that is a crutch way of playing, but enough about me.
What do you all think?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/14/2014 Posts: 144
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95% of my games are played in the early-mid WOTC era in 100pt so I'm probably not as relevant, but here's my play group's main NPEs -Override: My acquisition of an Elite Rebel Commando into our collection led to a lot of frustrated players. Its kinda sad seeing Vader rendered useless by a non-unique with override. I ran into this to a greater extent during the vassal tourney, not being able to attack because of door control wasn't great, but I guess more ugnaughts fixes that problem. -Getting attacked but not being able to attack back: Cloaked, stealth, molecular shield, mobile attack. Most players are annoyed when they have to charge pieces into the open to try and retaliate against these guys. I can tell this isn't as big a deal in today's game though. -Strafe: We played 1 game with the basilisk war droid. There was a lot of yelling and rule checking when I dropped 30's all over the place and didn't get shot at. That game didn't finish, never played with it again.
Again, this is all old stuff probably and my small collection pool probably doesn't help either. We usually have far more positive experiences than negative ones anyways.
I also agree with the aforementioned outactivation issue.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 1,098 Location: Kokomo
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Funny LANCER no longer even makes the list...It used to be the most feared strafer of all. Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Autodamage deserves a wider category IMHO. Blast bug, Repulse, Lighting..encompassing your self destruct catagory. How is Activation Control different from Out Act and Smash?
Force Immunity - "The bubble", the Vong, ect.. Could be included but probably not anyones first pick. Cannons- "One Turn Kill" Czerka, immediate attack, extra attacks. One (Han cannon) or multiple sources (Daala squads). CE suppression - ABM, Disruptive, Distraction.. Initiative control - Master Tactician, MTB, ect... I know Jason has often complained he is tired of losing to MTB.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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NPEs can be broadly categorized as:
Non-engagement: These techniques gain an advantage by not allowing the opponent to attack, or at least not attack anything worthwhile. Lockout Out-activate and smash (especially with initiative control) Activation control Attack+swap (leaving a Brute behind) Deep strike with a throw-away piece (e.g. Repulsor Sled/Snowtrooper) High-speed Strafe Cloaked/super-stealth Diplomat
Denial: It's annoying when one squad tells your squad, "You cannot do the cool thing you designed your squad to do." Ysalamiri/Vong Disruptive/ABM Squad Discipline (giving Disruptive a taste of its own medicine)
Punishment for doing what you're supposed to do: Killing the other squad is sort of the point of the game. Self-destruct Death shots
Inelegance/Tediousness: Some things tend to slow the game down... high activations, counting squares, rolling dice High activations (regardless of engagement) Tank squads (with lots of dice rolls) Massive movement breakers
Play Style: If you favor a particular play style, your bad match-up/auto-loss will likely be an NPE for you. Extreme Rock (if you like Scissors squads) Extreme Paper (if you like Rock squads) - Rock is the most popular squad type so this causes an NPE for more people Extreme Scissors (if you like Paper squads)
Notice how appropriately NPE Extreme is named. It includes tons of the above: an Extreme squad with tediously high activations, self-destruct, strafe with high speed, activation control + initiative control, and lots of Override.
Some of the pieces that get the most complaints combine multiple NPEs into one.
Lancer: Almost automatically creates an Extreme Scissors squad with a tedious massive movement breaker and the non-engagement of high-speed Strafe. Daala: Often an Extreme Paper squad with a tediously high number of activations, along with non-engagement in the form of a deep strike with a throw-away piece. Klatooinian Assassin: Non-engagement of Cloaked plus the punishment of self-destruct
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 1,098 Location: Kokomo
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FlyingArrow wrote:NPEs can be broadly categorized as:
Non-engagement: These techniques gain an advantage by not allowing the opponent to attack, or at least not attack anything worthwhile. Lockout Out-activate and smash (especially with initiative control) Activation control Attack+swap (leaving a Brute behind) Deep strike with a throw-away piece (e.g. Repulsor Sled/Snowtrooper) High-speed Strafe Cloaked/super-stealth Diplomat Nice post TJ! Looks like Non-Engagement is getting almost everyone's vote.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Thanks. I voted for Cloaked/Self-Destruct because it gives you the double-whammy of non-engagement plus punishment if you do engage.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2011 Posts: 1,766 Location: In a sinkhole on Utapau
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Amadeus wrote: -Override: ...I ran into this to a greater extent during the vassal tourney, not being able to attack because of door control wasn't great, but I guess more ugnaughts fixes that problem.
Lol, sorry about that. I was pushed to such levels of desperation when I juiced up my BX and rolled a 1 At that point, I'm like 'what's the score?' Up more than 10... 'what door control does he have left?' One more uggie... Accurate shot the uggie, lock out, save my chance at victory
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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Have to give it to Bastilla. Single-handedly made commander effects not as good and sparked a whole new special ability route just to give the other factions a chance. Crippling commanders ironically has become a great counter to other problems like Daala squads
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 2/17/2009 Posts: 1,446
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Apparently I'm in the minority here, but death shots are and always will be my biggest NPE. Anything that actively punishes you for doing what you're supposed to do (killing your opponent's pieces) just seems to run counter to the spirit of the game.
Being massively outactivated also sucks, but to me it only becomes a problem when those type of squads dominate the meta.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011 Posts: 951
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It should be noted that daala squads also sport out activate and smash versions.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 1,249
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pegolego wrote:Amadeus wrote: -Override: ...I ran into this to a greater extent during the vassal tourney, not being able to attack because of door control wasn't great, but I guess more ugnaughts fixes that problem.
Lol, sorry about that. I was pushed to such levels of desperation when I juiced up my BX and rolled a 1 At that point, I'm like 'what's the score?' Up more than 10... 'what door control does he have left?' One more uggie... Accurate shot the uggie, lock out, save my chance at victory lol so cheap! Or is it actually just a tactically intelligent move? Lets face it I doubt any good tactician worth his salt would pass up the opportunity to lock an opponent out. I have to say getting locked out sucks, but locking someone else out who doesn't have experience with it is really hilarious at times. "oh you moved your best piece out into the open early on in the round? Well I'll just lock the door behind him and take my time with him while the rest of your squad can't help" true story Don't worry he got revenge on me in the next game were he brought more override
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 1,249
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I haven't personally played against Deathshots yet, but I can imagine that's got to be one of the hardest NPE's in the game.
Awhile ago I would've said Lancers-strafe is the NPE I most dislike, but with the pieces we have been getting lately like the Buzz droids, I feel safer. That and most people are sick of playing it. Right now I dislike plying against high activation squads that force me to play aggressively when I don't want to. (either that or far more defensively)
Door control I can deal with and Tank Squads are fun to play with and against IMO. Bastila's ABM and Disruptive can be a huge pain, but I don't think it's the worst.
So I'm going with Out Act and Smash! And Non-engagement types which I would say includes Daala.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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FlyingArrow wrote: Punishment for doing what you're supposed to do: Killing the other squad is sort of the point of the game. Self-destruct Death shots
Energy Shield and Molecular shielding could go here too, but at least they have the "shut-off" of being adjacent. And don't forget Lightsaber Combat Expert 19! Still the worst ability in the game IMO. Not that it's broken, or I'm whining because I can't beat it. It's because it punishes you for doing what you are supposed to do. It leads to non-engagement. (Another major NPE) Zannah has 2 of my biggest personal NPEs. Soresu Style Mastery (50/50 at negating virtually any attack without even spending a FP!?! And no shutoff for melee/non-melee, being adjacent, etc!?! So stupid. Might as well grab a pack of quarters and see who flips more heads.) And LCE 19. I've never lost to Zannah. In fact I played against her in the champs. I didn't even bother to attack her, I just killed everything else and locked her out. Won through gambit (only 5 rounds to do that now!) But my point is that she encourages these tactics. I think a lot of times people's NPE comes down to what they can't beat. If you beat it easily, it's not an NPE. For me - my NPEs are things that create huge swings in the game based on a single roll (reserves for example), free 50/50 saves without an internal shutoff (Soresu Style Mastery), and punishment for attacking (death-shots, LCE 19, etc)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/17/2009 Posts: 489
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I think poor sportsmanship by your opponent should make the list.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011 Posts: 951
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leshippy wrote:I think poor sportsmanship by your opponent should make the list. +1
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
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leshippy wrote:I think poor sportsmanship by your opponent should make the list. Agreed. My biggest NPE overall is when my opponent just folds and suicides the moment they are at a disadvantage. It makes the whole game feel worthless.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2011 Posts: 1,766 Location: In a sinkhole on Utapau
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Deathwielded wrote:pegolego wrote:Amadeus wrote: -Override: ...I ran into this to a greater extent during the vassal tourney, not being able to attack because of door control wasn't great, but I guess more ugnaughts fixes that problem.
Lol, sorry about that. I was pushed to such levels of desperation when I juiced up my BX and rolled a 1 At that point, I'm like 'what's the score?' Up more than 10... 'what door control does he have left?' One more uggie... Accurate shot the uggie, lock out, save my chance at victory lol so cheap! Or is it actually just a tactically intelligent move? Lets face it I doubt any good tactician worth his salt would pass up the opportunity to lock an opponent out. I have to say getting locked out sucks, but locking someone else out who doesn't have experience with it is really hilarious at times. "oh you moved your best piece out into the open early on in the round? Well I'll just lock the door behind him and take my time with him while the rest of your squad can't help" true story Don't worry he got revenge on me in the next game were he brought more override Lol, I know what you mean. I have been on both ends of that from time to time. Hmm, I would say that, as a player, there are several options available to you as to how you are going to play the game once it starts. As the game goes on, you are committed to a strategy, and your options become fewer and fewer. At some point, I had the option of take my chances (pretty good) in a fight, hide my pieces, or lock out. I chose A, which effectively removed B, and when I rolled the one I'm like 'ok, change of plans'. I'd never had to do the end-game lockout before, but when it came down to winning or losing a competitive game over continuing to fight after the worst of luck on a roll (I used Improved Spotter like crazy, and the droid was like at +30 lol. Rolled a 1), or simply locking a door on an opponent after quite intentionally removing his door control from play, it was a pretty clear choice in this case. Now, under normal circumstances, I wouldn't want to do that even if I could, but again, this was a kinda special circumstance where it happened to work to where I could do it and it worked out perfectly, and it WAS in the final round of the game (after time). I was basically out of attackers at that point (I still had the BX, which I used to shoot his last Uggie, but not enough Droids to combine to take out anything else), so if I had fought, all he had to do to win was take out another few helpless battle droids or something if I HADN'T locked the door lol.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 1,098 Location: Kokomo
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EmporerDragon wrote:leshippy wrote:I think poor sportsmanship by your opponent should make the list. Agreed. My biggest NPE overall is when my opponent just folds and suicides the moment they are at a disadvantage. It makes the whole game feel worthless. Even worse, they run, hide, lock doors, stall... to deny you a full victory.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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Easy answer, slow play. :)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011 Posts: 951
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billiv15 wrote:Easy answer, slow play. :) Typical! Lol
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