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We have this interesting dynamic with the SWM release calendar. The regional season is the Spring, so the GenCon Vset release doesn't see all that much play on its own before the February Vset release. So what is Tier 1 after Vset 8 was released? There's a lot of guesswork here because we didn't see very many tournaments. But before Vset 9 comes out, let's take a look at where we stand. I'm going to a bunch of suggestions out there. If you think there's anything there that doesn't belong or anything missing, let me know.
I'm using these definitions:
Tier 1: A strong squad that is a legitimate contender for a Large Championship. It probably has no auto-losses within Tier 1, but if it does it has just as many auto-wins within Tier 1/1.5. Due to its strength, it is likely to be seen at a Large Championship.
Tier 1.5: Generally weaker than Tier 1 and/or may have an auto-loss or two within Tier 1/1.5 (without a counterbalancing auto-win). But it could still win a Large Championship if it avoids its auto-loss. There is a good chance that this squad appears in a Large Tournament.
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OR:
Bastila + Pilots
Thon Song
Sith:
Revan + Kaan
Malgus, Caedus, Vergere
Republic:
GOWK+Mace
Skybuck - WotC era
Republic Commandos - new with Vset 8
Naboo
Gungans
Separatist:
GGDAC + IG-86s +...
Commando Droid Officers - new with Vset8
Or, basically, throw any of these into the mix (often with Whorm):
Lancer (or two) + Sidious - from WotC era
Poggle + a bunch of Drones
Durge on Speeder
Cad Bane, Bounty Hunter
Aurra Sing, Assassin (with Cad)
Asajj Ventress, Nightsister (with Cad)
100pt Dooku
Commando Droid Sniper + Spotter
Quinlan Vos, Double Agent
Grievous, HoH
Imperial:
Daala (multiple versions)
Thrawn swap (multiple versions)
Rebel:
Siblings on Speeder
Unkillable Survivalists
Tantives
Smug Commandos - WotC era
New Republic:
Solo Charge - WotC era
Kyle/Jan
Luke's Art Class
Fringe:
Talon Karrde + Embo
Talon Karrde + Klats
Talon Karrde + (many other variants)
Mandalorian:
Cloaked + Vindicated (GenCon winner)
Neo Officer Cannons - new with Vset 8
Vong:
Spitting Nom Bombs
Blast Bug swarm
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I Think Solo charge is still competitive.
Also Sith should have Malgus/Caedus/Vergere tank as I think it is still very playable.
I'll add more if I think of it.
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urbanjedi wrote:I Think Solo charge is still competitive.
Also Sith should have Malgus/Caedus/Vergere tank as I think it is still very playable.
I'll add more if I think of it. Lord Krayt/Revan made top 8 in 2013. Is that still viable or did the swarms do it in? I added Solo Charge and Smug Commandos to the list. If those are still viable, I think that means all of the Tier 1 squads from WotC's last days are still viable: Skybuck, Solo Charge, Lancers, Smug Commandos, Thrawn Swap. Yep - all 5 of them, although some need some help from a few Vset pieces.
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I put the new entries after Vset 8 in italics. I think the new Black Sun pieces can also be Tier 1, but not sure of the exact squad or which faction(s) they'd land in.
Would the Republic Black Sun grenade swarm be Tier 1? Looks really scary, but it would fall apart quickly to quite a few other squad types: Lancer/Yobuck, Bastila, Disruptive. Even Force Sense.
There's a very large number of viable squad types out there.
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I think Separatists have a large amount of possible builds at the moment - really, you take Poggle/Drones/San Hill/Lobot, plus a random selection from their Tier 1 pieces, and you have a good squad. I'd give a shout out to Cad Bane Bounty Hunter squads, and I think Commando Droid Officers are very strong; a squad of multiple Commando Droid Officers or Commando Droid Officers with Spotter/Sniper are both strong.
Does the New Republic Gencon winner from 2013 still look good. I think it looks OK?
The most annoying thing about the meta at the moment is that there are a couple of swarm squads - Daala and Blast Bug swarms, maybe Tantives as well - that don't get shut down by Bastila and are difficult for a lot of other squads to deal with unless you have a mass killer. Do you risk playing Daala or Blast Bugs and hope you don't run into Durge/Yobuck etc. Or do you take a mass killer and hope you can deal with counters like Buzz Droids, Tantives, rock squads etc? The meta seems more rock, paper, scissors than normal at the moment - I'm hoping some of the minor scissors we've seen in the previews will help balance things out.
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You're right about Separatists. They kind of have a "Pick any 4" type of Tier 1 build:
Poggle and a dozen drones
Sidious/Lancer (counts as 2)
Durge on Lancer
Cad Bane BH
Aurra or Assaj (with Cad)
Spotter+Sniper
Dooku (counts as 3)
Pick any 4 of the above then round out with door control and activations. And I probably missed a couple.
NR Luke's Art Class and NR Kyle Katarn both made top 8 in 2013. I could probably put them both on the list. 2014 broadened tier 1 so much that even though they'd probably have a tough time with swarms, there's enough out there that they might be able to avoid swarms.
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I think Ganner + Lobot (access to Momaw) makes them no less vulnerable to swarms than a lot of other builds.
With Seps, I think you could probably do OK with:
Darth Sidious, Supreme Chancellor
Maul on Speeder -> Maul Infiltrator
Muun Guard swarm
IG-86 swarm
BX Sniper swarm with double/cannon shots
even stuff like Klat Assassins with Whorm is probably viable?
Some of these are probably a little tenuous for Tier 1 though....
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Tier 1 after set 8=
DAALA---- everything else is insignificant.
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FlyingArrow wrote:urbanjedi wrote:I Think Solo charge is still competitive.
Also Sith should have Malgus/Caedus/Vergere tank as I think it is still very playable.
I'll add more if I think of it. Lord Krayt/Revan made top 8 in 2013. Is that still viable or did the swarms do it in? I added Solo Charge and Smug Commandos to the list. If those are still viable, I think that means all of the Tier 1 squads from WotC's last days are still viable: Skybuck, Solo Charge, Lancers, Smug Commandos, Thrawn Swap. Yep - all 5 of them, although some need some help from a few Vset pieces. Matchups of squads and players matter more now then anything. You can field any faction and win. Just comes down to player skill. There are still pretty unwinnable matchups like Yobuck vs 3 point ewoks. Or Vong Hunters vs 86 swarm but most of the top table squads you see will match up closely enough and have answers for each other.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:Tier 1 after set 8=
DAALA---- everything else is insignificant.
Joking? Daala has lost plenty. Also won plenty. But lost plenty.
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 its fun for me
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Gotcha. Snowtroopers, my preferred Daala variant, has been nerfed such that I probably won't take it to a tournament again. (Might not have anyway though). Raxus Prime and Scouts are still good though.
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A couple tier 1 NR squads that weren't added would be:
Luke's Gym Class
and variations of the Luke, GH/Katarn/Jan Ors squads. I found a lot of success with the following variant, and came in 2nd place at GameHoleCon in Wisconsin 1-1/2 ago:
--Galactic Hero's--
48 Luke Skywalker, Galactic Hero
34 Jedi Master K'Kruhk
31 Kyle Katarn
29 Ganner Rhysode
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes
18 Jan Ors
9 General Dodonna
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 10 activations)
This squad really does well even today. I've been playing it for a couple years now and it really stacks up well against other good squads.
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Ok, possibly not belonging in this thread but ... after going though the naming of which squads should be tier 1, is there a consensus of any sort on which factions are leading the way? Seps obviously have many choices for being top shelf, but who really stands out faction-wise and who's still at the bottom? Just looking ahead ....
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Deaths_Baine wrote:Tier 1 after set 8=
DAALA---- everything else is insignificant.
A.K.A. ..... Snowtrooper, the new Thrawn.
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There really is a lot of parity right now.
Daala is really strong, but not the snowtroopers - especially after the Snowtrooper Officer errata. Not even sure they're Tier 1 anymore - certainly not dominant. Raxus Prime or the Scouts would work better.
Cloaked Mandos won GenCon and they are crazy strong, especially on Anchorhead.
Republic and Separatists both have tons of different Tier 1 options. Not sure if any of them stand out above other Tier 1 squads, but I could have seen any number of them winning GenCon.
In general, people don't seem to like to play Vong, but they won a couple regionals last year. I think they're as strong as the other factions.
In my mind, the bottom right now would probably be NR, Sith, and at the very bottom Rebel. Which is weird to say because they all have Tier 1 builds.
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So the consensus seems to be that pretty much everything from the past two (or even three) years that has done well can still do well. Then what from set 8 gets added to the mix? I've added a few:
Commando Droid Officer builds
Republic Commandos
Neo Officer Cannon squads
Two others up for debate:
Tarpals Black Sun Grenade swarm
Black Sun anything else...
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surf_rider56 wrote:Ok, possibly not belonging in this thread but ... after going though the naming of which squads should be tier 1, is there a consensus of any sort on which factions are leading the way? Seps obviously have many choices for being top shelf, but who really stands out faction-wise and who's still at the bottom? Just looking ahead .... I was asking our group about this last night. I'd probably go something like: Seps - so many options, and can keep up with high activation squads easily with Drones and San Hill Imperials - Daala is still really good. Not sure about Thrawn in a high activation meta.
Vong - Vong swarm squads are really good; both the Nom bombs and the Blast Bugs, plus they have an answer to swarms with the Quednak. Mandos - won GenCon, and have some flash new builds with the Neo Crusader Officer. The sometimes overlooked Counter Intelligence Officer is probably a good call in the current high activation meta. Republic - lots of options, Skybuck can deal with some swarms, and Naboo Troopers are another strong swarm build. Rebels - Tantives are another really good swarm build. New Republic - Dodonna + Ganner is still a really strong base. Feels like they haven't really got anything tier 1 in the last few sets. Old Republic - Bastila is really good, and she shuts down some of the best set 8 pieces (Neo Crusader Officer, Commando Droid Officer). Not sure what her best support options are. Sith - Caedus is really good. Fringe - really powerful, but don't have a great answer to high activation meta.
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I dunno, after Jim's low activation Talon Karrde Squad took out Timmer's super high act squad, I am not sure the fringe our so out of it with being outactivated. I know it depends on the exact matchup, but Talon/Embo/whatever is a really nasty start to pretty much any squad.
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urbanjedi wrote:I dunno, after Jim's low activation Talon Karrde Squad took out Timmer's super high act squad, I am not sure the fringe our so out of it with being outactivated. I know it depends on the exact matchup, but Talon/Embo/whatever is a really nasty start to pretty much any squad. I don't think there's any shame in coming 10th, as all the factions have strong builds. In the meta at the moment, with high activations, the factions they're best against (Sith, Old Republic) are also among the weakest. Still some good Fringe squads out there for sure.
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