|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
This thread is to discuss competitive OR builds and how to help them stand up to the current meta. There was one OR squad at the Michigan regional(one at the Indiana regional, played by myself), but other than that most people haven't been touching OT with a 30 foot poll. So what do you all think? Is the OR answer to the new meta "Thon song" or some form of super soldiers build? Or, should we wait until V-set 8 comes out and, lord willing, cures OR of its current leprosy?
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,434
|
(Note that this continues a conversation from here: http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140160/the-antarian-heros ) If you want to open it up to the whole OR, I don't think the Exile should be included in the squad when the meta has Daala and Tantives. After playing against Tantives in the PA regional, I think they chase melee almost completely out of the meta. Melee would have to have super-stealth or Cloaked to have a chance. Or maybe a melee swarm could do it if they outnumbered the Tantives. So I would look to shooters in the OR - particularly the triple-attack OR Trooper. Triple plus Grenades 20 makes him great for clearing guys out. Triple will generally be better (especially with GMA), but the grenades will stop troopers from clumping up too much. You can take Bastila plus the Arkanian because you don't really need the +4 attack from Prideful. It's more important to get the CEs turned off when facing Daala. So there's a start: Bastila Arkanian OR Trooper x3 But that's already 123 cost already, and 2 shots from Snows take out an OR Trooper. When ABM is on it would be 3 shots, and they'd need to roll 12s to hit the OR Trooper (16 if in cover). That's assuming the OR Troopers get the +2def from Force Valor.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
I would disagree that melee can't compete with daala and especially tantive. Obviously majority melee would be in very pore taste without some major tricks. However I think particularly a Thon squad could give them some major problems. I would completely agree after play testing that the new exile isn't competitive at the moment.
I think you are right about the OR trooper potentially being a big player in OR builds. I played an OR squad at the kokomo regional and beat a mace to the face squad and a Talon squad pretty badly. I played 3 troopers, Arkanian and the Padawan commander. You could toss in that 19 point commander that gives them +3 def and squad assault if you are willing to add an extra soldier or two. I used the guards as squad lings and paired them with the czerka for his twin. The jolt for the troopers works out very nicely as well. The Padawan commander is not a must. You could just as easily toss in 4 guards for the added support, acts and shots... Although with there 5 atk don't expect them to hit much without boosting them quite a bit.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,434
|
atmsalad wrote:I would disagree that melee can't compete with daala and especially tantive. Obviously majority melee would be in very pore taste without some major tricks. However I think particularly a Thon squad could give them some major problems. I would completely agree after play testing that the new exile isn't competitive at the moment.
Thon Song can compete with Daala - maybe not have an advantage but it would be a game. The problem is the Tantives versus melee. With Tantives, the Tantives out-activate, then Han gets in position. Then the Tantives get within 6 of Thon. Then Momaw blows them up. For every dead Tantive, Han gets a 40dmg shot at Thon, all on the same turn. If Thon rushes forward and blows them up - same result. An accurate shooter for the OR would certainly help. I beat the Tantives in the finals at PA, but I did it with Daala by staying 6 away when I shot the Tantives. I was outactivated (no Ozzel in my squad) so after I was out he could rush some forward, so I couldn't stay far away all the time. They were packed in around Han so with no accurate I couldn't shoot Han. So the ways around the Tantives that I see: * Cloaked/SuperStealth so Han gets no shot, * trade 1-for-1 in your favor (i.e. a swarm of 4pt or less pieces), * shooters that can stay far enough away that Heroic Stand doesn't trigger (or keep out of Han's LOS while shooting a Tantive), * Accurate to get to Han before killing the Tantives, * maybe a movement breaker to get past the Tantives if they aren't packed in too tight. * uber-shooter hate: Energy Shield (e.g. new Dooku), GOWK/Zannah, evade+Leia in NR Maybe there are other ways involving melee that I'm not seeing, but none of the above are melee except Cloaked melee. Then again, I think Lou's Vong beat the Tantives. I'm not quite sure how he did it. == Edit: Added uber-shooter hate.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,434
|
atmsalad wrote: Although with there 5 atk don't expect them to hit much without boosting them quite a bit. 5 atk is 50/50 for hitting a Snowtrooper and 65% chance of hitting a Tantive. Add Force Valor and they go up to 60% and 75% chance of hitting, respectively. (That's without cover for the targets.)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
With Thon squads, you do need to remember that Daala squads have access to Pellaeon and his Ysalamari. While FlyingArrow's build didn't use them, the other recently successful builds have. If you can't force repulse with Thon, it's hard to kill troopers fast enough. So if you play Thon, I think you need some way to get to Pellaeon - Accurate Shot, or Force Leap, or something.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 1,249
|
You could fit in a covenant Executor to give Thon Leap.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
|
OR is far from crippled! Ian Gordon won Gencon in '11 with them. I came in 5th in '12  and they made the top 3 last year! why am you so skeptical?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,098
|
I think part of it is that Bastilla is so last year (or two years ago or whatever). Most people are bored with playing bastilla and want to play with new stuff (in whatever faction). I think that Bastilla can be very competitive in the current meta. I would think that depending on map, she could handle tantive's without too much trouble.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
|
urbanjedi wrote:I think part of it is that Bastilla is so last year (or two years ago or whatever). Most people are bored with playing bastilla and want to play with new stuff (in whatever faction). I think that Bastilla can be very competitive in the current meta. I would think that depending on map, she could handle tantive's without too much trouble. amen Bastilla's ABM is deadly to opponents. their never happy to see her.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Ian was playing Snowtroopers at LowerHuttACon against Darth O's Old Republic squad (Bastila, Carth, Lord Hoth, VFarfalla). Oli won a low scoring game, but Ian had him on the ropes with major damage on most of his big pieces - Oli said that Ian would have won with an extra round or two.
I think against a lot of Old Republic builds, Daala squads can just advance up with everyone in the bubble and keep their CEs that way. Force Leap or Accurate Shot makes it trickier, but I think it's a valid strategy in that matchup.
Bastila can be very helpful against Daala, but she can't win the game by herself and needs good complements in her squad to make it a match. Mira could be worth considering - Splash and accurate could make things interesting.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
I am not skeptical, I started this thread to kick up some ideas for the OR. I enjoy the faction and haven't seen it played very much lately. (I would love to see a play report for the army of light build that almost beat daala and snow troops btw) I haven't seen them played very much lately and want to see what other people are coming up with. Especially things I haven't thought of or synergies I have never tried.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
That makes perfect sense that bastila was last year and people are just seeing her, but when was the last time OR made the top 4? More curious than anything. I know that OR can be Competetive... I am just trying to find a squad that with the current meta is top 4 material.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,434
|
urbanjedi wrote:I think part of it is that Bastilla is so last year (or two years ago or whatever). Most people are bored with playing bastilla and want to play with new stuff (in whatever faction). I think that Bastilla can be very competitive in the current meta. I would think that depending on map, she could handle tantive's without too much trouble. Kris' Tantive squad uses no CEs at all, and the damage boost doesn't help much since it's a bunch of 10hp pieces in the way. Mira with accurate and boosted by Bastila would be a nice choice but there, I think Mira's the more important piece than Bastila. Just took another look at Oteg - he could be really key against Tantives. Ouch. Go ahead and pack those guys in! Boom!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
Oteg is a nice bag of tricks, he really forces your opponent to be on his toes when it comes to positioning. The down side is he costs a pretty point to play. Satele is a good piece against shooter squads with her absorb energy and MOTF2. She also has parry and body guard... I'm a fan! Also, I like the Zann Droideka a lot. If I am thinking right the snow troops minus CE's can only do 20 a pop, so if the droid hasn't moved he can potentially absorb all of the damage he takes. Pretty sweet if I am looking at that right...
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
|
atmsalad wrote:That makes perfect sense that bastila was last year and people are just seeing her, but when was the last time OR made the top 4? More curious than anything. I know that OR can be Competetive... I am just trying to find a squad that with the current meta is top 4 material. Last year , as I mentioned before
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
I have a dream... A dream that the OR will make the top 4 in either one of the remaining regional or even gen con. Here are some squad ideas for the OR. Please post all feed back for them here. Do feel free to rate them though. http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140318/sateles-droid-armyhttp://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140304/shans-shootershttp://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140160/the-antarian-heroshttp://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/139820/old--prideful--soldiersThese are by no means the best squads out their. Just some different thoughts I have had.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
|
@jak- I did see that post, but i didn't know if they had placed in the top four in any of the regionals as of late.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
|
atmsalad wrote:@jak- I did see that post, but i didn't know if they had placed in the top four in any of the regionals as of late. sorry, don't know the answer to that one either
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Last year, the Old Republic made the Top 4 six times, including one win. (I include NZ's two big tournaments during the same time frame in my stats; I think they contributed at least one of the top 4s).
I don't think they've placed this year - I should start a spreadsheet. We have seen a lot more of a meta shake up this year than we have in previous years; Talon Karrde, Daala, and Tantives are all having a big impact, and I think that it's going to realign things a bit. All of those things are bad news for melee Jedi to some extent.
|
|
|
Guest |