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Help me maximize the new dooku Options
adamb0nd
Posted: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:15:25 AM
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http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108478/kookoo-for-dooku-puffs

Can you please review? Im struggling to make a competitive dooku build and could use pointers.
gwek
Posted: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 1:04:35 PM
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I tried to comment, but it looks like the comment was swallowed by the great abyss!

I think this is a fun squad. If you're looking to fine-tune in a bit, I would look to find a better replacement for the Muun Guard (for example, Wicket costs only a few points more, has generally superior stats, and, most importantly, has Traps, which is likely to give a penalty to an attacker who activates Dooku's CE).

The Destroyer Droid seems like a good choice, but I think you might want to playtest the B3 Ultra Battle Droid, too. Lower cost, similar stats, more combat options, also has a way to soak the damage from PtoDS... There are others you might want to consider as well (Crab Droid, HK-50, IG-86, E522). Most of those will lose HP faster, but will also have a higher dish-out of damage per attack, which could be a lot if you're making regular use of both PotDS and the TacDroid. You want to make all those extra attacks count.

Good luck!
adamb0nd
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:20:14 AM
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57 Count Dooku, Separatist Leader
37 Series II Destroyer Droid
20 General Whorm Loathsom
18 Lando Calrissian, Dashing Scoundrel
34 IG-86 Assassin Droid x2
10 San Hill
15 Mouse Droid x5
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

I have modified the squad based on a few suggestions. I do like this build better, but dooku only has one body guard, lando, who i don't really want taking too much damage. Does anyone have any better suggestions?
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:39:46 AM
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I guess my question is, what are you planning on using Dooku's Force Points on? Pawn or Anticipation?

You can always bring in more Bodyguards with Dooku, some very cheap ones, that also have a great attack (Muun Guard, +6 Atk for just 5 pts). Are you trying to bring in the big Droid support with Dooku's Reserves? If not, I would suggest the new Talz Pirate from R&R. Another Opportunist shooter to Bodyguard Dooku. A little less damage at range, but man, if you close on a Melee piece (Pawn perhaps), the Double Twin Opportunist will tear them up fierce.

In fact, I'm off to create a new squad now...
gwek
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:42:06 AM
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The problem with "Dooku's bodyguard" is that they need to fill a number of roles: decent HP (to protect Dooku), decent damage output (to maximize Dooku's commander effect), relatively low cost (because they might not be able to maximize their own abilities on each activation due to enforced placement), and flexibility (hopefully, the option to actually DO something on their turn, regardless of what happens with Dooku).

In terms of balance, Lando IS one of the best bets, I think. For a few points more, Han Solo, Gambler is a decent option (more HP, but lower damage output, unless you can use Long Shot, but Evade and Accurate Shot might help balance things). The Talz Pirate has lower damage but higher HP and if someone is silly enough to get adjacent, you get Double Claw/Twin with Whorm. Dash Rendar (the original) and the Yuzzem are also reasonable options.

One thing you need to ask yourself, perhaps, is how the character(s) adjacent to Dooku will most often be used. What is their value? If you're looking for them to do a lot of damage, focus on that. If you're looking more to keep Dooku alive and the damage is secondary, focus on that. Point for point, the Gungan Bounty Hunter has the Hit Point ratio of the available pool, I think. This piece will do significantly less damage than Lando, but for the cost of Lando, you can get two of them (so, 80 HP vs 50). Much as I like the double IG Assassins, I could see dropping one of them out in favor of two Gungun Bounty Hunters, or something like that.

Maybe something like this?

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/109751/bombad-dooku

I tried the B3 instead of the Destroyer Droid to get a few more points, and also went with Lobot for some flexibility. Something like this has two ranging attackers (one IG-86 and one B3), and also two shooters to stay near Dooku (Lando and a cheap Gungan BH). There are considerably fewer 3-point pieces, but you can bring either a bunch of them or a shooter via Lobot once you see what the opponent is playing.

Honestly, with Dooku's immediate reserves, I'm not sure that activation control will be much of an issue. I think you could even drop San Hill without much of a loss, and use those points to perhaps buy a few 3-pointers or to "upgrade" one of the shooters to something else.



Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:57:02 AM
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Unfortuneately, he has no way to bring in additional Mice, which is needed for Whorm's CE. Also, I see a bit of an issue, taking the Ugs out, as they are his significant door control. The gungans are great bodyguard's though.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:03:19 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Unfortuneately, he has no way to bring in additional Mice, which is needed for Whorm's CE. Also, I see a bit of an issue, taking the Ugs out, as they are his significant door control. The gungans are great bodyguard's though.


If you're referring to gwek's squad, he didn't list his Lobot reinforcements, which would likely be more ugs/mice.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:31:47 AM
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Talking about adombonds.
adamb0nd
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:47:19 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
I guess my question is, what are you planning on using Dooku's Force Points on? Pawn or Anticipation?

You can always bring in more Bodyguards with Dooku, some very cheap ones, that also have a great attack (Muun Guard, +6 Atk for just 5 pts). Are you trying to bring in the big Droid support with Dooku's Reserves? If not, I would suggest the new Talz Pirate from R&R. Another Opportunist shooter to Bodyguard Dooku. A little less damage at range, but man, if you close on a Melee piece (Pawn perhaps), the Double Twin Opportunist will tear them up fierce.

In fact, I'm off to create a new squad now...


I guess thats the question... dooku has so many abilities... i guess its impossible to strongly utilize all of them. Just need to pick one and focus on it.

I like your suggestion, ill mess around with the Talz.
adamb0nd
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:53:13 AM
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I do like lando the more i think about it... he has the ability to move for LOS, and then get back into body guard position thanks to mobile.

What do you guys recommend as Reserves? I don't really know if i should just stick with the muuns, or bring in some droids.

I dunno, i really like this dooku, but ive never found a piece that seems so hard to build a decent squad around. i imagine he's even hard to play with.
gwek
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:21:46 AM
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Honestly, I think Lobot, or another character with Reinforcements to offer similar flexibility, is key for a character like Dooku. Many of his abilities have a range of 6, so the squad your facing and the map your playing on have a HUGE impact on how to maximize Dooku.
adamb0nd
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:46:01 AM
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57 Count Dooku, Separatist Leader
32 B3 Ultra Battle Droid
20 General Whorm Loathsom
19 Talz Pirate
18 Lando Calrissian, Dashing Scoundrel
17 IG-86 Assassin Droid
10 San Hill
15 Mouse Droid x5
12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(200pts. 16 activations)

He's another update. I really do like the suggestion of the Talz. The biggest glaring problem I have with this squad is that i don't think the B3 will be able to hit anything with his +8. Granted, he has 6 attacks, but i could easily see a mouse droid in cover wasting all of those.

Granted, with a 25% chance to pull in some more units, it wont be hard to get a BDO, but it still is concerning. would you drop san for that damage boost to the b3 and ig?
gwek
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 2:24:47 AM
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The nice thing about the B3 vs a Mouse is that you don't have to worry about his attack! Just use Flamethrower or Missiles! (And, yes, the Destroyer Droid DOES have a +10 rather than a +8 attack, but that 2 point difference won't matter 90% of the time).

Although my initial instinct is that you might not need San Hill, I say go for it. With San Hill and Dooku, you have a 25% chance of pulling Reserves (which increases dramatically if you use Anticipation), so the chance of bringing in a BDO before you really need it is probably pretty good. (On the other hand, if you go with just Dooku, you can NEVER have San Hill, since Dooku's Reserves are for non-Uniques).

Unless you want to sub in Lobot or another character with Reinforcements for initial flexibility, I think what you've got right now is pretty strong. Might want to give it a little playtesting (both as is, and fine tuning with DD vs B3 and San Hill vs BDO) to see how it goes.

Good luck!
adamb0nd
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 4:11:42 AM
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gwek wrote:
The nice thing about the B3 vs a Mouse is that you don't have to worry about his attack! Just use Flamethrower or Missiles! (And, yes, the Destroyer Droid DOES have a +10 rather than a +8 attack, but that 2 point difference won't matter 90% of the time).

Although my initial instinct is that you might not need San Hill, I say go for it. With San Hill and Dooku, you have a 25% chance of pulling Reserves (which increases dramatically if you use Anticipation), so the chance of bringing in a BDO before you really need it is probably pretty good. (On the other hand, if you go with just Dooku, you can NEVER have San Hill, since Dooku's Reserves are for non-Uniques).

Unless you want to sub in Lobot or another character with Reinforcements for initial flexibility, I think what you've got right now is pretty strong. Might want to give it a little playtesting (both as is, and fine tuning with DD vs B3 and San Hill vs BDO) to see how it goes.

Good luck!


Thanks for all the help guys. The squad evolved quite a bit from the original vision. but im really looking forward to seeing how it plays this weekend. i'll let you all know :)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 4:18:16 AM
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If you're doing a Reserves squad, Recon is pretty important. Recon+Anticipation (4 rolls) means you should get Reserves on average once per round if you also have San Hill. (It doesn't work out that way because you don't get double-reserves if both recon rolls get reserves, but it's a worthwhile investment.)
gwek
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 5:37:14 AM
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The Seps don't have any Recon for themselves, so I think Lobot is the only real option. Not a bad, choice, I think. The squad would have to sacrifice either a couple of the 3-pointers or one of the damage-dealers, but with 6 chances to get some sort of Reserves, it wouldn't be long before you got it back. Hit the right number twice early on and the game shifts dramatically in your favor.
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