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In a game where Mace Legacy was attacking an Imperial Knight, the Mace player rolled 3 attacks without waiting for the Imperial Knight player. The Imperial Knight player says, "Wait, I have Block". He rolls his Block and gets 19 - Cortosis Gauntlet. The Mace player says, "Wait, I have Force Absorb - cancelled."
What's the ruling?
It was a casual game so we just went with "what I would have done if you gave me a chance to respond", but I wasn't sure what the outcome would have been in a competitive environment. My guess is that the Block could have been applied to the first attack since Mace rolled all 3 attacks without offering the Knight player the chance to respond. But since the Knight player didn't declare which attack he was blocking before rolling the save, the Block would have been applied to the 3rd attack. And then, since the Knight player rolled the save without giving Mace a chance to respond, Mace could have used Force Absorb even though the Block save was already rolled.
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The rolling of all the attacks at once is a pet peeve of mine, personally.
It will depend on the judge. I think the fairest will be for you to reroll all the attacks, give a moment for Block decision, and a moment before the roll for Absorb decision.
Other rulings I've seen is that you can choose which attack to Block, which you decide before the roll, and if the roll was made, you can't Absorb.
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It is proper to roll one attack at a time. Between each attack, just give a couple seconds to allow your opponent a chance to make any reactions (mandatory or optional).
Now in this case, it propably wouldn't have matter how you resolved it because of Mace having Absorb. He/she still should have allowed you a chance to declare you were using Block before rolling his other attacks.
Sincerely,
Jester007
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In a competitive environment, I'd probably say let the first attack stand, and have that be what's being blocked. Technically after the first attack was rolled the Mace player was required to wait for the possible block before doing anything else; if he kept rolling dice in that time, those rolls didn't mean anything, since the dice wasn't "in play". If all 3 dice were rolled at the exact same time, I'd just have him start at the beginning and roll all of them again, starting with the first attack.
With the Absorb, if the Blocking player didn't give any time to respond before rolling, I'd still allow the Absorb. If he gave the time and waited to see the roll, then it wouldn't be allowed (if the result had been <11, he probably wouldn't have Absorbed).
If neither player can agree on whether or not an appropriate enough amount of time had been given and I didn't actually see it myself, it would be a tough decision. If I knew anything about the players, I would probably go by that (as in if one player is notorious for doing this, I'd probably rule against that player), but if not I'm not sure how I'd handle it.
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I was the Mace player.
He blocked and rolled the save right away - I didn't have a chance to declare Absorb, but I also forgot about it because my first thought when he rolled the 19 was about when Cortosis Gauntlet would have kicked in, not about the fact that I wanted to absorb it. I told him he could use the block on the first attack since I didn't wait for him to declare, but he said he would have used it on the 3rd anyway (waiting for crits). Then I remembered Absorb and said I would have declared to absorb it - I had plenty of FP and wouldn't want to risk a CG, and he let me absorb it. In a competitive game, I guess that would be a judge's call. Not enough time was given, but if it was I would have forgotten anyway.
At any rate, thanks for the insights.
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Yeah, it's one of those sticky situations that's up to the judge in a competitive game. Usually the players can work it out, and it sounds like you did what was best. If he rolls without giving you the chance to Absorb, I'd say you're able to Absorb after the fact. He's the one that was supposed to wait for you, if he's going to give you extra information (what the result of the Block was) then that's on him.
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I was the Imperial Knight Player. I should have waited for a response before rolling block, I agree. (to be fair I had no idea Mace had Force Absorb...)
But I think we handled it pretty well...thought it would be nice to know if there is anything "official." Knowing the Knight was going to die at the hands of Mace, I would have waited for the final attack or a Crit anyway...knowing me, I wasn't going to use Block on the first swing. I should have waited to see if Mace had a response though.
The nice thing about this is that we did talk it out and came to a logical conclusion that seemed fair to both of us. My Knight still died...my poor Knight....she had so much to live for in service to her Emperor!
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I've had times where this has happened, so I now ask my opponent after each attack if he wants to/can do anything to stop it. It has basically stopped all such situations from occuring.
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Echo24 wrote:In a competitive environment, I'd probably say let the first attack stand, and have that be what's being blocked. Technically after the first attack was rolled the Mace player was required to wait for the possible block before doing anything else; if he kept rolling dice in that time, those rolls didn't mean anything, since the dice wasn't "in play". If all 3 dice were rolled at the exact same time, I'd just have him start at the beginning and roll all of them again, starting with the first attack.
With the Absorb, if the Blocking player didn't give any time to respond before rolling, I'd still allow the Absorb. If he gave the time and waited to see the roll, then it wouldn't be allowed (if the result had been <11, he probably wouldn't have Absorbed).
If neither player can agree on whether or not an appropriate enough amount of time had been given and I didn't actually see it myself, it would be a tough decision. If I knew anything about the players, I would probably go by that (as in if one player is notorious for doing this, I'd probably rule against that player), but if not I'm not sure how I'd handle it. My issue with this, is that I've seen a lot of players with GMA and/or Twin roll the X number of dice for the number of attacks they get. Which one is the first? Like I said, one of the biggest pet peeves in a game.
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Sithborg wrote:Echo24 wrote:In a competitive environment, I'd probably say let the first attack stand, and have that be what's being blocked. Technically after the first attack was rolled the Mace player was required to wait for the possible block before doing anything else; if he kept rolling dice in that time, those rolls didn't mean anything, since the dice wasn't "in play". If all 3 dice were rolled at the exact same time, I'd just have him start at the beginning and roll all of them again, starting with the first attack.
With the Absorb, if the Blocking player didn't give any time to respond before rolling, I'd still allow the Absorb. If he gave the time and waited to see the roll, then it wouldn't be allowed (if the result had been <11, he probably wouldn't have Absorbed).
If neither player can agree on whether or not an appropriate enough amount of time had been given and I didn't actually see it myself, it would be a tough decision. If I knew anything about the players, I would probably go by that (as in if one player is notorious for doing this, I'd probably rule against that player), but if not I'm not sure how I'd handle it. My issue with this, is that I've seen a lot of players with GMA and/or Twin roll the X number of dice for the number of attacks they get. Which one is the first? Like I said, one of the biggest pet peeves in a game. Yeah, that's true. I think if someone did that when their opponent had a chance to respond, I'd tell them to just start rolling the attacks over and do it right this time.
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THe rule we have used generally in our group to avoid situations like this is, when someone has a way to avoid damage roll just 1 attack at a time. IF they dont and there isnt a chance of you using more attacks on another character than roll as many as you want at once.
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I've never had this come up in any regionals I've played in or anytime at GenCon, but it happens regularly when we visit different groups for local events. When my opponent does it, I point out that he's giving me more information to make reactionary decisions (FPRRs on evade, bodyguard, block, etc) and that if he wants to continue to do that, I'll take advantage of that information. While it is also a pet peeve of mine, I recognize that all gamers come from different environments and so I let them do it however they please. Were it at GenCon or a regional, however, I'd probably be a little more by the book.
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One way to really curtail this habit is if you get into a situation like his GMLS triple twinning on Jareal. He rolls his 6 dice; you roll yours and match your parries to any crits and your failures to his. I would think that would stop that kind of rolling pretty fast.
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