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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2008 Posts: 1,784 Location: Canada
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hothie wrote:2. Initiative is better with Beta, IMO. With Saga, it was almost a competition amongst our group to see who could have the highest initiative value before rolling. With Beta, all players roll based on their stats, but then they turn into either PC or NPC slots. So even though you may have rolled the highest, that just means a PC gets to go first, not necessarily you. That actually worked out, because each round the group could assess the situation and allow someone new to go first if it was more imperative for that person to go first. It made it easier to GM, because I could say,"OK, 4 PC's get to go before the Tuskens do." And then the players could decide who did what. Interesting. It sounds like this system turns init rolls into more of a team effort rather than an individual push for battle glory. However, having read your description, I see no reason why we couldn't adopt this in Saga as well.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/21/2008 Posts: 288
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thereisnotry wrote: Interesting. It sounds like this system turns init rolls into more of a team effort rather than an individual push for battle glory. However, having read your description, I see no reason why we couldn't adopt this in Saga as well.
It really is more team-focused, which is why we liked it. And being able to re-assess each round who should go first was nice, like if someone needed to go due to injuries, maybe someone is now in melee combat, or whatever. The one person that was last wasn't stuck going last each round. And on the flip side, if someone who didn't need to go first rolled highest, in Saga you have to voluntarily give up your slot to go behind someone else, whereas in Beta they can just choose not to go first this round while still retaining the PC slot. I guess it depends on your group. I could envision some groups having more than one person arguing that they should go first, but with our group, we came to an agreement fairly quickly, and it worked well for us. And yeah, I don't see why you couldn't adopt some of these rules for Saga as well.
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Rank: Young Krayt Dragon Groups: Member
Joined: 4/27/2009 Posts: 50
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One thing I noticed about this - some people have complained about the lack of Jedi rules, focus on criminal debt, etc.
This is only one book of several planned. It looks like they're basically doing a core book around each of the main heroes of the setting. This is the "I want to play Han Solo" book. It's all about the fringe, semi-criminal, semi-rebel activities, reminiscent of, as one poster said, Firefly.
There will be another book covering the "I want to play Princess Leia" types, giving details on the rebellion, soldier and spy sorts of archetypes, etc, and one for the "I want to play Luke Skywalker" types with everything you need to play Jedi.
This is -not- intended to be a complete game in and of itself, although it can obviously be. It's just the simplest of the three+ to set up, balance, and get into print.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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ecs05norway wrote:One thing I noticed about this - some people have complained about the lack of Jedi rules, focus on criminal debt, etc.
This is only one book of several planned. It looks like they're basically doing a core book around each of the main heroes of the setting. This is the "I want to play Han Solo" book. It's all about the fringe, semi-criminal, semi-rebel activities, reminiscent of, as one poster said, Firefly.
There will be another book covering the "I want to play Princess Leia" types, giving details on the rebellion, soldier and spy sorts of archetypes, etc, and one for the "I want to play Luke Skywalker" types with everything you need to play Jedi.
This is -not- intended to be a complete game in and of itself, although it can obviously be. It's just the simplest of the three+ to set up, balance, and get into print. One of the main complaints is that each book will be stand alone. This might sound cool, as it means you don't need the edge of the empire in order to play the next expansion. but when you buy the next book, you're paying for all the basic rules a second time, as the book will contain EVERYTHING you need to play. I'd prefer a smaller book without reprinting information from the first released (cheaper), or the same sized book with more unique material.
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Rank: Young Krayt Dragon Groups: Member
Joined: 4/27/2009 Posts: 50
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adamb0nd wrote:One of the main complaints is that each book will be stand alone. This might sound cool, as it means you don't need the edge of the empire in order to play the next expansion. but when you buy the next book, you're paying for all the basic rules a second time, as the book will contain EVERYTHING you need to play. I'd prefer a smaller book without reprinting information from the first released (cheaper), or the same sized book with more unique material. And if they did that, there would be just as many complaints that "why do I have to buy this extra other book if all I want to do is play X?". Let's say they did what you suggest. The first complaint would be "Why do I have to pay for all this stuff on Fringe people when I'm playing a Jedi? Why couldn't they put the rules in the Jedi book?" Secondly, if they were to add "more unique material" to the subsequent books, the second complaint would be "Why does the Jedi book cost more?" (Answer: Because the extra material has to be paid for.) Then we'd get the complain "Why doesn't the Fringe book have that much cool stuff? Ditch the rules, put them in some other book." So we'd have both the Jedi -and- the Fringe players upset.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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ecs05norway wrote:adamb0nd wrote:One of the main complaints is that each book will be stand alone. This might sound cool, as it means you don't need the edge of the empire in order to play the next expansion. but when you buy the next book, you're paying for all the basic rules a second time, as the book will contain EVERYTHING you need to play. I'd prefer a smaller book without reprinting information from the first released (cheaper), or the same sized book with more unique material. And if they did that, there would be just as many complaints that "why do I have to buy this extra other book if all I want to do is play X?". Let's say they did what you suggest. The first complaint would be "Why do I have to pay for all this stuff on Fringe people when I'm playing a Jedi? Why couldn't they put the rules in the Jedi book?" Secondly, if they were to add "more unique material" to the subsequent books, the second complaint would be "Why does the Jedi book cost more?" (Answer: Because the extra material has to be paid for.) Then we'd get the complain "Why doesn't the Fringe book have that much cool stuff? Ditch the rules, put them in some other book." So we'd have both the Jedi -and- the Fringe players upset. Say what you will, but saga released countless books based on Class and Era, and no one complained that they had to buy an additional book for all the cool jedi powers, or for rules on playing a cyborg. As it stands, if you have a player who wants to play a jedi, and one who wants to play a scoundrel, you're going to have to have both books anyway. Since most people's chief complaint is the lack of a jedi class, I assume that most people who bought this book will be buying the jedi one, at the least. Take white-wolf for example. They are a very successful gaming company. They had many games that used the same mechanics, and all of their books for each of these games contain the core system mechanics to play. If you wanted to play vampire, werewolf, mage, mummy, demon, hunter, changling, and wraith, you were paying for the same 50-100 pages worth of material 8 times. They rebooted the system a few years back, and this time, when they released their new system, they made 1 book as the core book. It had the rules for character creation, and gameplay mechanics. Every other book (the 8 listed above, plus others) could be purchased played with the use of the corebook. It means you needed 2 books, minimum, unless you wanted to play regular humans (provided in the core), but it also means that if you want to play 3 or 4 of those games (like many of us will with the new star wars system), you saved more in the long run. I guess its an argument of where to reward the casual gamer or the completionist. Unfortunately, until i hear some stronger reviews and they release a finalized version of the first game, i'll be neither.
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Rank: Young Krayt Dragon Groups: Member
Joined: 4/27/2009 Posts: 50
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If you want to argue from a price-point perspective...
The basic World of Darkness rulebook retailed for $25. The additional books retailed for $35 each for Mage, Vampire, etc.
Compare this to $40 each for the core books in the previous edition, and you're now paying $15 more. You aren't saving money unless you really are buying them all.
Edge of Empire presents everything you need to play in one package, which will appeal a lot more to the casual gamer. Whoever made this decision is looking to that market, to draw in Star Wars fans rather than gamers. I think you'll agree that the former is a much larger market than the latter.
For all we know, that decision may not even have been made by FFG. It could well be something Lucasfilm insisted on. It's happened before, they put several requirements on WotC while they had the license.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/14/2009 Posts: 1,728
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Fact is, any system that has a new core book fo every type of hero pales in comparison (In that regard) to just about any system I've ever played.
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