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How do you beat a lancer? Options
Minitank HT
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2012 11:07:40 PM
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Posts: 33
Hey there folks. I'm newish to the competitive game in that that I wasn't around when lancer droids were an important part of the meta. Having now tried to play against these things that can put 40-80 on all your peices and then let the rest of the squad finish you off, I'm wondering how people actually beat them in the past. Can anybody help?
EmporerDragon
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2012 11:43:56 PM
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Proper positioning is the primary way. If you place your units in a way where they can't strafe you, their offensive power is massively lessened.

After that, Disruptive works quite well as it removes all of the bonuses. And any unit that can counter attack will make short work of a lancer with the cheapest, most reliable option is the Kel Dor Bounty Hunter, who will die, but do 40 damage in turn to the lancer making it easy pickings (or ensure it's death if it was pawned).
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2012 11:44:22 PM
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Other people will know way more than me, but some ways include:

Squad Choice
- riposte/Djem So
- death shots/self destruct

Lobot reinforcements
- a Kel Dor Bounty Hunter will kill a pawned lancer on self destruct
- Salacious Crumb with a Gamorrean Bodyguard can stop the Lancer's commander effects for a couple of passes
- a Jawa Scavenger could one-shot a Lancer with accurate (less reliable, since it still needs to roll well, and the Lancer can also one-shot it

Positioning
- the Lancer can't get to some points on maps, as it can't go back into the same squares it just came out of, or strafe pieces in an alcove.


General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2012 8:24:23 AM
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If you really hate them and play them alot then Grandmaster Skywalker
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2012 11:26:04 AM
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Joined: 4/30/2008
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Well, that depends :)

What type of squad the lancer is in and how many of them are there (grevious, sid, double) (sid, poggle) (whorm, sid, ig86) and whether it has San or no San Hill.

Also what types of squads do you play against it.

There are some squads, that just cannot beat a lancer squad (or shouldn't) just as there are some that should never lose to a lancer squad.
Weeks
Posted: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 8:46:09 AM
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Depends on what kind of Lancer. If it's urbanjedi's double lancer then Disruptive and BG is the way to go, if it's single lancer + IG-86's then your best bet is a bum rush to kill as much as you can. If it's single Lancer + drones + other attacker then you want to eliminate one of the 3 ASAP.

Really just being able to advance on it is big. If you dig yourself in the lancer player can just score gambit and and widdle you down.

The biggest thing is just knowing how to protect your tech pieces until they can do their job. If the lancer gets all your door control before you can pop some doors with your uggies then it'll be a long game. With so many factions having counters or just enough speed to catch it Lancer isn't as dangerous as it once was. It can still be nasty though if it can avoid some bad matchups.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 12:31:58 PM
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really, in order to beat a well built and well played Lancer squad you have to build with it in mind.

that requires a decent amount (not necessarily all) of these tactics
a) activations - enough of them so that you stand a chance to equalize the activation deficit and prevent the strafer having his wicked way early in the round . Activations can also swallow up landing places
b) movement - republic and sith can catch a lancer pretty easily, imperials can use swap effectively, rebels and NR can use levitate to catch it on the retreat with a decent shooter, the other factions struggle and need to rely on other means of taking it out or just absorbing the hits
c) dmg - a reliable 40-60 hitter so that when you get your shot your able to take it out.
d) return fire - counter attacking abilities like riposte, djem so, self destruct and death shots can give lancers headaches, but, whereas most people think that adding them automatically give you a free pass against a lancer the reality is that you still have an uphill struggle most of the time as the lancer will fly over your threats and attack the squishy support instead.
e) stoic door control - nothing worse than getting locked out after having your door control strafed and having your chances go from slim to none.
f) Never tell me the odds - lancers are devastating with an MTB, it essentially gives the lancer and unanswered 3 movements. 72 squares of punishment. Its one reason Han GH is a common piece in my squads. Not only does he prevent MTB abuse but his access to levitate with the double accurate GMA makes him a pretty good Lancer hunter.
d)disruptive/distraction - this is useful for Grievous DAC lancers, Whorm lancers and overseer lancers but some great squads don't even need these pieces. The lancer just goes for your fodder and disruptive does little
e) Override - in general, you have to have a really good reason not to have override on your squad. Keeping doors locked in front of you as you advance against a lancer is a good way to stop early strafes. It will force the lancer player to use his override to expose you possibly giving you the chance to snake his override in exchange. If you can trade override pieces (assuming he doesn't have multiples) then you lose the biggest fear which is, IMO, lockout via a lancer.

The lancer is a piece that i feel has too many advantages even now with 4 vsets addressing its power. Its got great attack, its one of the fastest pieces in the game, it comes in the faction with the best activation control and can use the lancer twice in a round.
It usually beats you even before you engage.

My biggest beef with it is that it allows the lancer player to engage without allowing the opponent anything to attack back. I know that this tactic has been used by imperials since GA Thrawn (universe) but at least in those cases you could attack swappers to limit late game options for the Imps. The lancer risks nothing unless you have advanced forward enough to make a play on the resting lancer.

One successful method of combating it is advancement without giving it a landing spot. This requires the use of narrow corridors that prevent a 4 space landing spot. Any map with 2 square wide corridors are effective at preventing this. The lancer, once in the corridor, has to fly the whole length of it because it can't do a 180 and so either commits to the movement or not. you stagger your fodder an have you meat in the middle, preferable with a ripsoter in there. If your lucky enough the lancer won't even be able to get to the "safe" squares at the far end of the corridor and so you can basically forget about its effects until the next round.
You would use this approach for the first few rounds until you contest the center. Once you get to the center the lancer can't really get far enough away if you have at least reasonable movement and you should be able to tag it.

For this to work you have to have fodder, and you must protect it. No piece is expendable until you can be assured of trading pieces.
In the event you don't have narrow corridors look for strafe proof rooms (turbo lifts, 1x2 or 2x2 square detention cells or any room that the lancer can't turn around in) to move your main pieces/door control forward in.

In the case that neither of these tactics are available - SPREAD OUT. Literally start with your pieces spread along the forward most edge of the set up area (keeping them safe from round 1 shots obviously). Its irritating not having your pieces in a nice cohesive group but there is a huge difference in getting all your fodder killed in one round as opposed to 2-3.
Individual riposters are helpful during advancement, keep the piece you want to protect next to a wall and the riposter directly adjacent. with one riposter you can keep one fig safe, with 2 you can keep 3, with 3 you can keep 5 etc etc but its restrictive and kind of a last resort.

And that is basically all you can do. The rest of it is adapting to your opponents tactics. Its never a fun game against a lancer unless you've built with a strategy to deal with it and then its usually pretty obvious to the lancer player what you are trying to do. Then its cat and mouse.

AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:51:38 PM
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TheHutts wrote:

- Salacious Crumb with a Gamorrean Bodyguard can stop the Lancer's commander effects for a couple of passes


Am I interpreting this correctly when I imagine that salacious crumb cancels the effects of CE's ON adjacent enemies, not just the CE of a commander who is adjacent to him?
fingersandteeth
Posted: Thursday, November 8, 2012 1:03:44 PM
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
TheHutts wrote:

- Salacious Crumb with a Gamorrean Bodyguard can stop the Lancer's commander effects for a couple of passes


Am I interpreting this correctly when I imagine that salacious crumb cancels the effects of CE's ON adjacent enemies, not just the CE of a commander who is adjacent to him?


you are correct, its essentially disruptive but with adjacent range restriction rather than within 6 squares.
Minitank HT
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:48:10 PM
Rank: Rancor
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Joined: 12/25/2009
Posts: 33
Thanks everybody, both for the bloomilk posts and the Talkshoe thing: that was a lot of help Smile
MaliciousCrumb
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:21:10 PM
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Joined: 7/12/2012
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Covert Ops is also a really good counter to it. I don't think that it was mentioned yet.
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