I said this on the show and I will say it here.

Bastilla is very strong (although not overpowered) and I think that had she started with 1 less FP she would have been perfect IMO although maybe a little on the underpowered side instead of the overpowered side of the line.

However I do not feel in any way shape or form that she is a problem piece that needs design "fixes" specifically. I think the problem is that people tend to shy away from building heavy CE squads right now because they "might" run into Bastilla and have a difficult game. This is bad squad building which just leads to some of the same stale old matchups. I have seen very few people actually playing OR. I think there were 3 or 4 at Gencon (out of 36) and each of those were quite different. Also at Minis Mania there were only 1 or 2 out of 16 that were running OR. The likelihood of actually playing against a Bastilla squad in large tournament is actually pretty low. I played 6 rounds at Gencon and 5 rounds at Minis Mania and only saw Bastilla 1 single time. Not sure why people are so hesitant to play CE heavy squads just because someone might play Bastilla, but they are.

On a side note, I am pretty proud of all of the design team members if the "worst" pieces we have created are just mere annoyances in the grand spectrum of things (Bastilla, Poggle, Mace, HK, etc) especially when compared to what WOTC did to the game at certain times before we got it.

Huh? What? Is someone there?

Yes Rebels have a lot of options, a lot of old options. Up until S&V they have been largely ignored by the Vsets team, that pilot squad notwithstanding. Which is why they are kicking it at the bottom of the pack.

In my opinion, it should be +4 and +10 damage and supresses commander effects not limited to 6 squares. Then,

Force Focus Jam( would be renamed)
Force 1 Can only be used once per skirmish.Advance Battle Meditation can not be used after this ability has been used unless no commander effect has been negated. Battle MediatedChose target enemy. Their commander effect is negated, save 16. Adjacent force users may use one force point to reroll this save.

Yes and no. Sure ABM doesn't disrupt the Vong CEs, but OR still get their +10. I've beaten Vong a few time with OR.

As the lead PT on DotF I will confirm Deri's argument, that we did in fact extensively PT multiple versions of ABM. Daniel and David did some of it, I did a bunch on my own with individuals on vassal and in person, and another group also had two versions to work with.

Everything, from all sources made clear that 2 starting FPs didn't work, and granting disruptive to everyone was way out of flavor. I will even confirm that we had a version without the +10 damage that flopped massively. Every PT result came back the same (never play the piece, not useful enough to bother adding her to a squad just to counter CEs).

Far, far too much of this topic has made the limited argument that she completely nerfs CEs to the point of not playing any at all. I don't care what a casual player says, don't friggen play BS in a casual game without telling your opponent... Sheesh. As for competitive tournaments, the statements here are not accurate either. I'll explain why.

You don't play BS in every game. Even when you do (odds in a large tournament are never higher than 1/5 from anything I've seen reported). Nor when you play her are you really completely hosed. You still get to play your squad vs. theirs. I've beaten BS plenty of times (far more than I've lost) both with CE heavy squads and with those without much. You just play against it more straight up than abusing your gimmicks. But again, at most its 1/5.

While most players never figure this out, the key to tournament play has nothing to do with figuring out auto losses and so on. You just need to play the best odds. If your CE heavy squad is so good that you can beat most non-Bastilla squads in a tournament, then you are wrong for not running it because of Bastilla. Every squad has at least a 1/5 chance of facing its toughest match in a tournament these days, that was not true before BS.

Let's just look at 2011 for an example. I played Kybuck, same squad exactly I played this year and took 2nd. Its the squad I would have ran in 2010 had I not decided to judge the event. I played against Ian in swiss and won a relatively close game. In the top 8, I faced double lancer on his map. Made it close, but in the end the match up was too strong against me. But the match up here, was no worse than a CE heavy squad against BS. I'll repeat that, the match I lost was no worse of a bad match for me, than a CE squad against BS.

Play what you think can win you the most games. Ignore one bad match up. That's what the winning tournament players always do.

Man, it took me through the end of the 4th paragraph to realize that by "BS" you meant "Bastilla Shan". At least, I think that's what you meant....

Anyway,



Yeah, I can agree with that, but she's certainly a factor. And when it comes to CE-heavy Rebels, like I said earlier in the thread, she is just one of many things that has left them behind lately. The issue isn't that she's so powerful, it's that she's an NPE that hates on something that I don't think needed that much hate. No, she doesn't automatically make CE-heavy squads all lose, but I think she hurts them more than they needed to be hurt.

I also think that many of the players are/were so tired of playing rebels (that was what you played if you wanted to win for the better part of 3 years) that people are almost going out of their way to NOT play rebels. Part of it it is v-set stuff. People want to play with NEW stuff and the rebels haven't gotten much of anything for the competitive side in a while.

Part of it which people don't talk about as much is the map list. The Throne Room was far and away the Rebels best map (IMO) and the loss of that coupled with the fact that most of the maps are more melee-friendly (or at least balanced) means that shooter squads that want to stay far away and shoot (rebels and others) have taken a hit. If I can get close to a rebel squad I can usually defeat it because most have lower HP and Def than others. Without the crazy long firing lanes some of those squads just don't work as well anymore.