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Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:09:23 PM
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Just sort of gauging interest, as this has come up in discussions.

What is everyone's interest in side projects only being available in PDF format? I know we all love the printed cards, but some things, like the Epics, are not financially viable to be printed. Would you want a new Epic set, if it was print only?

I remember the talk of a scenario book. What if it such stuff was available only by PDF? Would people be interested in it?
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:14:23 PM
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While I do like the printed products, if certain things were only released as PDFs I wouldn't mind, especially if helps cut costs and help keep production affordable
dreadtech
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:27:26 PM
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Cards not so much, anything else though would be fine.
However, if it came down to pdf cards or none then ok new pdf cards are better than nothing
SignerJ
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:47:03 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Just sort of gauging interest, as this has come up in discussions.

What is everyone's interest in side projects only being available in PDF format? I know we all love the printed cards, but some things, like the Epics, are not financially viable to be printed. Would you want a new Epic set, if it was print only?

I remember the talk of a scenario book. What if it such stuff was available only by PDF? Would people be interested in it?


I'm pretty sure that the plan was for the Scenario booklet to be printed out. However, most everyone has pretty much abandoned the idea, except for myself and one or two other people, so I don't know if it will still be happening.

As for your question, if I don't have the physical copies, I don't play with the cards.
tonythetoyman
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:10 PM
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My understanding is that we pay for the cards to cover printing and shipping and to help print extra for those who can't afford ones. So, would that mean there is no cost to the PDFs since the could be posted online and we'd have to print them ourselves?

Personally, I'd rather pay $25-30 to keep the printed vSets coming (and I rarely play anymore, I just like to have them for when I have time again).

Maybe we could do free print your own epic cards and scenarios, and keep the printed regular cards?
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:39:25 PM
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Yeah, I'm not talking about the standard cards, meant for standard & tournament play. I'm just talking about side cards, like Epics or possibly cards like the AT-AT, or scenarios.
corranhorn
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:49:36 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
[quote=Sithborg]

I'm pretty sure that the plan was for the Scenario booklet to be printed out. However, most everyone has pretty much abandoned the idea, except for myself and one or two other people, so I don't know if it will still be happening.




I thought pastorbuwine put that on hold for some reason?
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:48:05 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Yeah, I'm not talking about the standard cards, meant for standard & tournament play. I'm just talking about side cards, like Epics or possibly cards like the AT-AT, or scenarios.


My take on it:

Releasing them as printable PDFs detaches them from the deadlines that must be met for the regular sets. I think this would help to ease the burden on design, play testing and quality control, and make for better stuff across all projects.

The cost benefits are a no-brainer. Scenario pieces and Epics really cannot be professionally printed like the main sets at this point. The financial backing just doesn't seem to be there; times are still tough for many people.

As a side note, whenever I play the Epics with my son, I print the cards out on a full sheet of paper, so they are (very) easy to reference. Going electronic means the card layouts can be significantly larger, easier to self-print at reasonably good quality, and without the worry of them getting damaged. (just print another one!)

I would love to see some new scenario stuff and other pieces to run in big battles. Heck, some of the old crew might even show interest in something like that. Smile
thereisnotry
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:48:04 PM
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Yeah, I want to prevent any mis-communication: Scott is NOT saying that the regular V-Set cards will no longer be printed. Our plans are to continue with those as we have before, with professional printing, pointmen, mailing, etc.

But if (and that's a big IF) we were to do more "special" sets (like Epics, scenario vehicles, etc) then it would be good to know if PDF copies would be acceptable to the broader player-base. Larger cards like the Epics can be very costly for printing, and it would probably not be wise to try to fund and print another Epic set, the way we did before.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:43:51 PM
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I'm okay with PDF products as long as it doesn't lead to too many products. If the lack of a printing cost leads to a proliferation of 'official' releases, the 'official' sense will be lost and they will be just like any other customs posted here on bloomilk. Just keep the number of stat cards close to what it has been in the past.

Similarly, the scenario book should be released and updates should come out only once or twice a year, just like the Vset releases. I'm very interested in the scenario/play format book that SignerJ mentioned. I'm not going to be the point man for it, but I would contribute.
Galactic Funk
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:44:45 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I'm okay with PDF products as long as it doesn't lead to too many products.


This. Kind of a different discussion but the pdf option could easily lead to too much stuff coming out.

Back squarely on topic though, I have no issue with the pdf option for select projects. As an example, prior to the release or at least distribution of the Bounty Hunter Challenge printed cards you could print out a copy off of swmresources. Those cards would print off at a large size, bigger than the Epics. The nice thing about it is that they were really easy to read and you didn't have to.worry about it getting wrecked. One issue with Epic's are protecting them.

Again, for select projects I'm totally in favor of the pdf option.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:20:55 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:
Yeah, I want to prevent any mis-communication: Scott is NOT saying that the regular V-Set cards will no longer be printed. Our plans are to continue with those as we have before, with professional printing, pointmen, mailing, etc.


Also, this is very important. Anything that is tournament-legal should have an officially printed card, not just a PDF. The print quality of the Vset cards is great, but I always thought they could have been way cheaper (like WotC quality or even slightly worse instead of the nice glossy finish) and that would have been okay, too, if that's what the budget is.
adamb0nd
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:42:46 AM
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I am fine with it, and here is why: This game has been in decline for some time. Slow decline, but decline none the less. Thats what happens when a game is discontinued. At this point, the rate of new players joining the game is very low, and the rate of players dropping is very high.

It seems like its gotten to the point that it is becoming harder and harder to produce actual cards. Less players means less donations. There have already been mentions of players who do not donate not getting a set this time around (this is a first), and also talk of future sets having less than our current standard 60 pieces.

That being said, the game cannot sustain itself indefinitely. Eventually we will have 2 options: Go to PDF or pull the plug. If doing some of the mini sets or epics on PDF helps draw out that slow death, so be it. I plan on sticking with the game until the v-sets drop off, and if that means i need to spend 30 bucks and go up to kinkos and get a slightly lower quality card stock on some of the pieces, so be it.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 9:42:53 AM
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+1 adamb0nd
As for the cardstock quality, I sleeve all of my cards and then place them in toploaders (practically bullet-proof!), so I'm personally not too concerned about the cardstock quality. However, I know that not all people do what I do, and so I can appreciate that those people might prefer a professionally-printed set.

TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:28:03 PM
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Not that other discussion points are not valid for the future, we are talking about like a single one-off "bonus". Not instead of the regular sets, and not in abundance.

More like - hey, we had this grand idea that doesn't fit snuggly in any other pre-defined category.

Would people ignore it? Or would people say, "Sweet, bonus!" My guess is that it wouldn't be legal for official play (can't bring this to a regional), but more like for scenarios and fun.

It seems like a no brainer to me, but the bottom line is that nobody wants to waste their time if nobody cares about it. So if you think you would like to see something like this, just say so. If not - say so as well. But as TINT said - don't misconstrue, we are fully planning on continuing the regular sets 2x a year with professional printing. What would be everyone's feeling about a single (or very occasional) bonus piece meant mainly for scenarios?
dreadtech
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:24:28 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Yeah, I'm not talking about the standard cards, meant for standard & tournament play. I'm just talking about side cards, like Epics or possibly cards like the AT-AT, or scenarios.


Well as we already have had some epic cards I personally would like to continue having the printed cards if we are getting more. The reason I donate towards the cards is because my printers just not good enough to do the cards. the text is not readable. If not enough money is donated to do epic cards just don't do them. Scenarios and items like that are fine as I would not print them, just use them on screen, if used at all.

I guess I would be OK with anything other than vsets & epics cards as TimmerB123 as sort of said in he's last post..
General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:43:20 PM
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I much prefer to use printed, I don't think my group would use Epics off line. I always pay and would keep doing so to get printed epics/others (what happened to the vehicle set last year??). However if its no epics or PDF epics, the choice is clear haha.
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