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Poll Question : Only a 1 point win if you go 4 rounds in an hour?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 3 14.285714 %
No 18 85.714285 %

Slow play question? Options
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:07:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,291
I'm just curious if anyone else feels you should only get a 1 point win for only completing 4 rounds in an hour long game.

No bad mouthing, no arguing, just genuine question, with input as to why you chose that.

I say yes... For 2 reasons

1. It encourages confrontation between squads, which, IMHO, is the primary point of this game

2. People who are not familiar with an act control squad will not run them for fear of only getting 1 point. ( as they are generally the ones who take the longest)
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:29:32 PM
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Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
The issue with this is that it gives the "loser" even more control on how the winner does. The loser can easily play slow enough that only 4 rounds are completed.

If anything, we should do the opposite and go to the NZ scoring system which awards 1 pt to a loser if they score half the build total. This encourages them to try and kill stuff as they can possibly earn a point even if they don't win the match itself.

They have 4 possible scoring outcomes
3-0 for a complete destruction
3-1 where winner gets 200 and loser gets over 100
2-0 timed win
2-1 timed win and loser gets over 100 pts.

corranhorn
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:41:24 PM
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Posts: 1,728
urbanjedi wrote:
The issue with this is that it gives the "loser" even more control on how the winner does. The loser can easily play slow enough that only 4 rounds are completed.




This. So much this.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 4:39:22 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
It's a completely invalid question unless you add the addendum that this is specific to games where neither player reaches 200pts. If you can reach 200 points in 4 rounds or less, you certainly shouldn't be penalized for it.

My answer is still no, regardless - the above posters pretty much covered why.

But I thought I'd help you at least propose a valid question.
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:26:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,291
Ehh, yeah, I guess I just over looked the if you collect 200 before 4 rounds thing.

I guess I figured that would be covered by the previous rule that if you collect 200 you get a3 point victory?

I'm just seeing how everyon else feels about the situation.

I'm not screaming for a rule change by any means, just seeing how the community feels about tis subject.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:28:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
4 is a very specific number. Where did you come up with that?
UrbanShmi
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:01:52 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
Sorry, this has to be judge's discretion. There simply isn't a number of rounds that would always indicate intentional slow play, particularly slow play on the winner's part. Unfortunately, it's really hard to cut down on slow play as it happens, because people tend to be reluctant to call a judge over (I'm as guilty of that as anyone, although I have asked opponents to speed up a few times). So that leaves us with reports after the fact, where the (typically) losing player, after thinking the game over, decides that maybe their opponent was stalling. With only the recollections of the two players involved, there's simply no way to determine what happened, and no recourse even if something unfair went on.

To my mind, the more relevant question is: were both players actively trying to win (scoring gambit, killing pieces, attempting to get to the build total) throughout the game? If they were, even if they only got through four or five rounds, I don't think you can call that slow play. If one was but the other refused to engage or perform any other action aimed at working toward the build total, thereby making it impossible for the first player to get the 3-point win, that might well be a case of slow play, no matter how many rounds they got through in the hour.
countrydude82487
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:27:48 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
urbanjedi wrote:
The issue with this is that it gives the "loser" even more control on how the winner does. The loser can easily play slow enough that only 4 rounds are completed.

If anything, we should do the opposite and go to the NZ scoring system which awards 1 pt to a loser if they score half the build total. This encourages them to try and kill stuff as they can possibly earn a point even if they don't win the match itself.

They have 4 possible scoring outcomes
3-0 for a complete destruction
3-1 where winner gets 200 and loser gets over 100
2-0 timed win
2-1 timed win and loser gets over 100 pts.



This is pretty much how i feel. i would love to go to this format because in many of the matches i have lost I get alot of points. To me this balances the issue and gives each person a greater reason to engage. That is my biggest pet peeve in this game is when someone will only allow 1 or 2 of their pieces to engage for the majority of the match and hide the rest of theirs so that no one. Many times this leads to slow play as they can get a good amount of points with these pieces they use but then they keeps everything else in a room or locked in gambit to farm the points to win when they die. this has not happened to me recently but i have had it happen alot in the past and it irks me alot.
Lou
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 6:40:29 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/8/2008
Posts: 110
I think the issue is that people are only trying to be ahead at the end of an hour rather then hit the build total. I do not think we can do anything more to hurt the people who are ahead after an hour other than not letting them call it a win even though it counts as one. ;)
thereisnotry
Posted: Monday, June 24, 2013 3:52:59 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 1,784
Location: Canada
countrydude82487 wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:
The issue with this is that it gives the "loser" even more control on how the winner does. The loser can easily play slow enough that only 4 rounds are completed.

If anything, we should do the opposite and go to the NZ scoring system which awards 1 pt to a loser if they score half the build total. This encourages them to try and kill stuff as they can possibly earn a point even if they don't win the match itself.

They have 4 possible scoring outcomes
3-0 for a complete destruction
3-1 where winner gets 200 and loser gets over 100
2-0 timed win
2-1 timed win and loser gets over 100 pts.



This is pretty much how i feel. i would love to go to this format because in many of the matches i have lost I get alot of points. To me this balances the issue and gives each person a greater reason to engage. That is my biggest pet peeve in this game is when someone will only allow 1 or 2 of their pieces to engage for the majority of the match and hide the rest of theirs so that no one. Many times this leads to slow play as they can get a good amount of points with these pieces they use but then they keeps everything else in a room or locked in gambit to farm the points to win when they die. this has not happened to me recently but i have had it happen alot in the past and it irks me alot.

+2 I think this is the way to go. Well said, Jason.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:58:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 907
Location: Central Pa
thereisnotry wrote:
countrydude82487 wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:
The issue with this is that it gives the "loser" even more control on how the winner does. The loser can easily play slow enough that only 4 rounds are completed.

If anything, we should do the opposite and go to the NZ scoring system which awards 1 pt to a loser if they score half the build total. This encourages them to try and kill stuff as they can possibly earn a point even if they don't win the match itself.

They have 4 possible scoring outcomes
3-0 for a complete destruction
3-1 where winner gets 200 and loser gets over 100
2-0 timed win
2-1 timed win and loser gets over 100 pts.



This is pretty much how i feel. i would love to go to this format because in many of the matches i have lost I get alot of points. To me this balances the issue and gives each person a greater reason to engage. That is my biggest pet peeve in this game is when someone will only allow 1 or 2 of their pieces to engage for the majority of the match and hide the rest of theirs so that no one. Many times this leads to slow play as they can get a good amount of points with these pieces they use but then they keeps everything else in a room or locked in gambit to farm the points to win when they die. this has not happened to me recently but i have had it happen alot in the past and it irks me alot.

+2 I think this is the way to go. Well said, Jason.


I have been an advocate of New Zealand's 3-2-1 scoring system since I first heard of it and have been vocal about it since about the time Kez started promoting his ranking system. I believe that if we tweak the scoring system at all, it should be in this direction. That being said, however, there are those who are saying that no change is necessary. I think the primary consideration in deciding to tweak is how it will be perceived among the newer and perhaps more casual tournament players. Personally I don't see any potential disruptions but any changes should be carefully considered at this point.
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