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juice man
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:48:41 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
A recent thread got me thinking. What do you do at a Tourny if
1. A judge makes a wrong call.
Do you
A. Politely correct them and bring out your copy of the rules/FAQs.
B. Politely correct them and ask for conformation from other judges/players.
C. Suck it up and play on.

2. You are watching a game and player A does something wrong
both player A and player B don't realise it. And you don't know either player.
Do you
A. Politley point out the mistake.
B. Get a judge so he can check for himself.
C. Wander off and let them play.

UrbanShmi
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:07:09 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
If I am involved in a game and disagree with a call, I will question the judge (are you sure? would you mind checking a rules source?) once and ONLY once. After that, I would accept the call and perhaps pursue the matter after the round/ event was over.

In the second situation, 90 percent of the time I would go to a judge and ask them to watch the match. The only exception would be a case where I knew both players were new to the game and making the correction would not unduly interfere with the game.

Edit: After reading and thinking some more, I'm backing off of consistency a little bit. Obviously in situations where there are multiple judges, they should do everything they can to ensure consistency. However, I don't think people should be stuck with an incorrect ruling if it's something that can be ruled correctly going forward with minimal effect on the players.

Good topic.
urbanjedi
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:07:28 AM
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Joined: 4/30/2008
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As far as a Judge making an incorrect call, I would appeal to the head judge/TO/whoever was available in the chain of command. If you still think the ruling is incorrect and it is EASILY findable in a rules forum somewhere then I think it would be OK to take a few seconds to try and look it up. It is not ok to take 10-15 or more minutes to try and find some obscure ruling. I know at regional level type events, many times there are other players who know the rules quite well and could possibly assist the judge in determining a ruling.

However, the Head Judge (ie judge #1 in our 3 judge panel that we have used for regionals) should always have the final say.

If after the game or in between rounds, it can be found that an incorrect ruling has occurred it should be pointed out to the judge and the judge can make a determination about whether to change the ruling going forward or to stick with the ruling that was issued for the rest of the event. Any previous rulings should stay as they were made at the time in this situation. I know from personal experience that at the PA regional, Jim (with assistance from myself and Lou) made an incorrect ruling about Suppressive fire. Between rounds we were made aware (one of the older rules threads) that the ruling had been in error, and Jim announced that going forward we would use the CORRECT ruling. Also at Kokomo, we had a rules question come up. The judge ruled correctly, but during lunch we looked and after about 20 mins of searching verified that it was in fact the correct ruling.

We all make mistakes from time to time as this is a very complex game. And I know that many of us over the years have played various things incorrectly from a rules standpoint. I know I just recently learned some of the more in depth rulings of Death Shots and even now, I am not 100% that I could answer every single question about them correctly.


FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:10:14 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
When we play at home, I think I 'cheat' at least half the time. The other half my opponent does. Usually the 'cheating' is because we forgot a rule or an ability, but sometimes we later find out that we misunderstood a rule entirely.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:12:42 AM
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Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 1,784
Location: Canada
It all depends on what kind of tourney it is. Gencon Championships or a Regional? Or a simple for-fun tournament with no real significance outside of itself?

If it's a big and high-profile event, then I honestly think that C is the worst choice in both scenarios. I think the key here is "politely" (repeated 3 out of 4x). The idea is not to be heavy-handed, but rather just to make sure that the game turns out properly and fairly--not only for both players, but also for the rest of the people in the tournament.

If it's pretty much an insignificant event, I'm not sure it would matter what you did, because people are just there to play anyway. In the first situation, I'd still want to have a correct ruling in a game I'm playing, but it wouldn't be worth pressing the judge on it, since there's really nothing at stake. In the second situation, I personally would wait until one of the players asked my opinion before sharing it.
urbanjedi
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:15:33 AM
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Posts: 2,093
As far as #2

Most of the time, I would probably alert whoever was the judge to at least come take a look at the game, unless I had been watching the whole time and knew 100% that an error was being made. If I saw someone not make an evade save, I would point it out, but at the same time if I hadn't been watching I might not have know that that particular character had been hit by suppressive fire so didn't get evade from reikken anymore or some other thing.

As a non-judge at an event, it is never good form to interrupt another game. At the same time, it is also just as bad to let some make multiple rules mistakes. There is also a fine line as to what must happen (evade, opportunist, twin attack, etc) and what is optional (Double Attack, Greater Mobile, etc). And we certainly cannot have someone not participating in a game possibly affecting the outcome by giving strategy advice (whether accidental or not).
jak
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:01:03 AM
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Joined: 10/17/2010
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
I'd vote a combo of "c" for both questions........wander off and suck it upLOL
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