Weeks Offline
Post subject: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:32 am
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Daala was originally in set 4 but she got dropped for Flim. Here's where we left off on her

Admiral Dalaa
16 points

40 hp
14 def
4 Att
10 dam

Unique
Rival (May not be in a squad with any characters with a force rating)
Imperial Reserves 20 (roll a 6 bring in 20 points of nonunique imperials)


CE:Non-Unique trooper followers within 6 squares gain Double attack


I did some thinking on this yesterday and had a thought that may make the Triumvirate playable by using Daala. Here's what I came up with

Admiral Dalaa
32 Points

60 HP
14 Def
6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Report (Non-unique Imperial's without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reinforcements 20 (During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you can add up to 20 points of Imperial characters to your squad)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)
Hard-Headed (not subject to commander effects)

CE:Non-Unique Imperial followers without a force rating gain +4 attack against enemies with a force rating.

"Now it's our turn to show them what we can do."


So she costs 32 or effectively 12 after reinforcements. You get 4 point Stormtroopers too which is nice. She has something similar to what Talon has, only her's doesn't restrict what faction you use, only that she is the most expensive piece you get. So Arica, Weir, Storm Commando's, Storm Trooper swarms get a hefty boost you don't get to combine her with Thrawn. So maybe this will be enough to open up other Imperial options that aren't built around thrawn. You can get stormtroopers up to shooting at +12 for 30 all the time with Daala, Piett, and GARY. With the other Imperial Officers we are adding you may be able to make up an imperial squad based around Admirals (that aren't blue) and Stormtroopers. I think thats pretty cool.

Daala can also be used in Thrawn squads by giving you access to commanders you may want but can't afford. Gave her Hard-Headed so you can't use her Reinforcements then use Pellaeon to drop her for a differant attacker or even Thrawn.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:08 pm
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Weeks wrote:
Admiral Dalaa
32 Points

60 HP
14 Def
6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Report (Non-unique Imperial's without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reinforcements 20 (During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you can add up to 20 points of Imperial characters to your squad)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)
Hard-Headed (not subject to commander effects)

CE:Non-Unique Imperial followers without a force rating gain +4 attack against enemies with a force rating.


I like this version. very interesting.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:17 pm
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We should make a good movement breaker for Imperial Troopers. It wouldn't work with the stuff that Thrawn is good with (Storm Commandos and solid uniques like Arica, Cad Bane, or Vader), and I don't think you would play something like that with Thrawn since swapping a single trooper isn't that great.

Daala might be the piece to do that with.

How about a CE like "Imperial Troopers gain Furious Assault"? FA is a very tough ability, but Imperial Troopers as a category are generally not very good.

Something like this:

Quote:
Admiral Daala
27 Points

60 HP
14 Def
+6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Rapport (Non-unique Imperials without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Furious Assault


Changed Reinforcements for Reserves so hard headed isn't needed. If we want Imperial Reinforcements it should go on a follower so we don't have to worry about Pellaeon. Dropped the cost to 27 so you can play the Imperial Triumvirate with her and still get Prideful.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:55 pm
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Echo wrote:
We should make a good movement breaker for Imperial Troopers. It wouldn't work with the stuff that Thrawn is good with (Storm Commandos and solid uniques like Arica, Cad Bane, or Vader), and I don't think you would play something like that with Thrawn since swapping a single trooper isn't that great.

Daala might be the piece to do that with.

How about a CE like "Imperial Troopers gain Furious Assault"? FA is a very tough ability, but Imperial Troopers as a category are generally not very good.

Something like this:

Quote:
Admiral Daala
27 Points

60 HP
14 Def
+6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Rapport (Non-unique Imperials without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Furious Assault


Changed Reinforcements for Reserves so hard headed isn't needed. If we want Imperial Reinforcements it should go on a follower so we don't have to worry about Pellaeon. Dropped the cost to 27 so you can play the Imperial Triumvirate with her and still get Prideful.


Well now with just Dalaa and Veers you have storm troopers at +9 for 20 hitting everything they can draw a line to. It wouldn't be too hard to get that attack up with GARY or Piett. I agree on making the imperial army actually worth a blasted but furious Assualt is crazy whe they have easy access to an Acurate Shot CE.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:55 pm
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It doesn't have to be Furious Assault. It could be Charging Fire, or she could move people on her turn. It just needs to be for Imperial Troopers only.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:16 am
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I don't know that it is really that bad to have stormies that can get bumped up to that much. Getting cunning, opportunist, accurate, and daalas bump is around 80 or 90 points.

They still can't hit super stealth, or cloaked. They still get nerfed by bastila and disruptive and with regular stormies you are still only hitting for 30 damage.

maybe to limit it we add range of 6 to Daala's Prideful CE

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Post subject: Re: Admiral DaalaPostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:38 pm
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Quote:
Admiral Daala
27 Points

60 HP
14 Def
+6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Rapport (Non-unique Imperials without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Furious Assault


Les might be right. Lets see more PT on this. If Furious Assault is too much (and it very well could be), we can change it to something like this:

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Speed 8 and Charging Fire +10 [Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +10 Damage]

Then troopers could move 16 squares and make a big attack. Still a big movement breaker for troopers, but less extreme than FA.

One thing that needs to be tested is her with Thrawn. If you aren't getting Prideful, is she worth it? She shouldn't be, honestly. She really needs to be good without Thrawn, but not better with him. That's how we make an alternative option to Thrawn.

PT the quoted stats above for now.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:41 pm
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Just going to mention, Scout Trooper on Speederbike. With Weir, you get Twin Strafe followed up by a Twin Furious. Not going to get Daala's boost, but at that point you might as well use Thrawn and GARY.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:53 pm
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So I spent a while building around this piece yesterday and here is what I came up with.

Daala 27
Veers 21
Piett 20
Nyna 18
GARY 16
Pellaeon 16
Scout Troopers x6 48 - 6 42
Czercka Science 13
Mas 8
r7 8
Ugyx 3 9
18 ACT
So super stealth, twin that get furious, cunning, opp, accurate, prideful, and are in a yslammri (sp?) bubble.

Shots from scout look like this
normal +5 for 10
Prideful +4 for +10
Cunning/Opp +4 for +10
Nyna +10 dam vs stealth

Totaled for a +13 for 30/40 twice against each legal target. I have not playtested this yet. My main concern, and I am not sure this is that big of a draw back, would be keeping the 14 charcters in the 6 range for yslammirri

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:25 am
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Played this last night. In the build I realized that not only is Daala pumping up the scout with prideful, but the commanders as well. Not they are great shooters, but with the czerka GARY can now twin +16 for 40. Not bad for a late game piece.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:57 pm
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Yep, that's one of the great things about Prideful. Thrawn gave Opportunist to all the commanders and made them better shooters too, so it is like that but better.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:00 pm
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Admiral Daala
27 Points

60 HP
14 Def
+6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Rapport (Non-unique Imperials without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Charging Fire

Dropped Furious Assualt for charging fire. A whole swarm of troopers running 12 and hitting for big damage is great. Furious Assulat leaves it too open for weird shit like Veers/Weir/Dalaa/speeder speeder strafes over a 12 square path then accurate shots everyone again. Best to just stick with Charging Fire for her movement breaker.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:49 pm
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i just don't see it being a problem. since weir cost more there is no prideful bump. So you have a character that has a +5 atk that we are worrying about. Sure it can get opportunist or cunning by adding even more commanders, then it is only attacking at a +9. I don't see it as abusive. plus it cost 21 points for the cheapest speeder.

You could bring in clone speeders, but that cost 62 to do that.

I don't think speeders are something to worry about a bunch.

If it is a problem the simpler solution would be to add "troopers with out flight" or "troopers with a medium base"

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:19 am
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I think Charging Fire is safer all around. Furious Assault for Imperial Troopers is very strong. On the other hand, we're trying to break Thrawn-reliance a little bit. The Imperial Triumvirate tried to do that and wasn't good enough, but we don't want to make an option that's TOO good. I'd like to see a playtest or two with Charging Fire and see if people think that's even worth playing.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:05 am
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From the Snowtropper officer thread we are talking about changing this piece as well and rather then talk about changes on this piece there i will talk about it here.

I could see dropping report if we gave back furious assault and maybe up her cost by a point. However I don't think we should raise her point cost above General Weir. This would be to avoid twin speeders. I think more powerful storm commandos is fine, but I would have to look at a speeder squad with twin and all the bumps. maybe without report it would be ok. However this might also result in people playing storm commandos rather then regular troopers

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:33 am
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I still think we should drop Rapport, mostly because Rapport is a dangerous ability in general, especially when it stacks. I'm a big fan of large Rapports for old crappy pieces, but Rapport for something like "non-unique Imperials" is a problem I think. That will stack with any other Imperial piece we make in the future with Rapport, and I'm just not comfortable with that.

I also 100% agree that her cost needs to stay below Weir.

I'm still hesitant about Furious Assault, and think we should avoid that. We could change the CE to Charging Fire +10, so everybody gets a little more damage output, or we could also give her Set 4 Han's CE that lets Imperial Allies ignore low objects and difficult terrain while moving, which makes Charging Fire even better. I think either of those options would be ok to change for dropping Rapport.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:19 pm
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Charging Fire is good for me. +10 or not can be tested.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:42 pm
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I can go with the charging fire +10 lets see how it works.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:39 pm
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27. Admiral Daala*
27 Points

60 HP
14 Def
+6 Att
10 Dam

Unique
Rapport (Non-unique Imperials without a force rating cost 1 less in a squad with this character)
Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round)
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

CE: Imperial Troopers gain Charging Fire +10

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:54 pm
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Quote:
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

:!: This will need to be fixed to avoid Imperial Mouse Droid Syndrome via Disra.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:18 pm
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swinefeld wrote:
Quote:
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

:!: This will need to be fixed to avoid Imperial Mouse Droid Syndrome via Disra.



Dang, I just came in here to check what the final wording of it was, as I was considering it for XXXXXX. Someone please buzz me when a decision is made.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:34 pm
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swinefeld wrote:
Quote:
Prideful (If this character is the highest cost character in your squad Imperial allies gain +4 attack and +10 damage)

:!: This will need to be fixed to avoid Imperial Mouse Droid Syndrome via Disra.


two ways to fix this. Do the standard allies with a damage rating or we could just do living allies. I am fine with either.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:56 pm
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It needs to just be for allies who have a damage rating, so that in the future we can make living characters with 0 damage still, and because Disra would still be able to bring in Caamasi Nobles but they wouldn't be able to shoot with Prideful (although they already can with Thrawn, but that's a bug, not a feature).

That can be defined in the glossary definition though I believe. That's how Roger Roger and ABM are. On the card itself it doesn't specify the >0 Damage requirement for either of those.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:17 pm
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Probably best if it is on the card, because it will come up. But for space concerns, following those other glossary precedents may be the better way to go if it would be reused on cards with more text than Daala's.

Whichever is fine by me, but Scott may have a preference.


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:44 pm
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Yeah, card is preferred. Roger, Roger and Advanced Battle Meditation were not intended to only be in the glossary. Those required errata when the problems surfaced.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:01 pm
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Thanks Scott, I'll add it.


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:07 pm
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This should do it.

Quote:
Prideful [If this character is the highest cost character in your squad, Imperial allies that have with a Damage value greater than 0 gain +4 Attack and +10 Damage]


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:07 pm
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Another question on Prideful:

What exactly transfers from character to character or faction to faction?

Or in other words, will the glossary read:

[If this character is the highest cost character in your squad, # allies with a Damage value greater than 0 gain +4 Attack and +10 Damage]

Or

[If this character is the highest cost character in your squad, # allies gain #]

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:23 pm
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It should probably always be +4/+10. Faction should be able to change, though. That's really up to Scott and how he writes the glossary entry, though.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:56 pm
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Echo wrote:
It should probably always be +4/+10. Faction should be able to change, though. That's really up to Scott and how he writes the glossary entry, though.


Wouldn't be my first choice, but ok, I can live with that as it works with XXXXXXX; less so with XXXXXXX.

Would faction be replaceable with things such as Black Sun or, in this case, Army of Light?

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:20 am
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:

Would faction be replaceable with things such as Black Sun or, in this case, Army of Light?


I would not have a problem with that.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:54 am
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I can see how the wording in the glossary for something like that would be weird. Like I said, it's really a Scott thing, since he's in charge of the glossary entries. He would have to tell you what can and can't be done with it.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:39 pm
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Bumping for Scott, as I really want to use this(Prideful) for XXXXXX, but with the current granting of +4 +10 I can't, as there is no way I can make XXXXXXXXX a 32 point character to avoid stacking with Shan.

Also, what if the Prideful Character is tied for the Highest?

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:23 pm
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Yes, who it will benefit will be variable. I would prefer the bonuses not be variable, though.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:12 pm
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Sithborg wrote:
Yes, who it will benefit will be variable. I would prefer the bonuses not be variable, though.

When you say bonuses should not be variable, do you mean it should stick to just granting straight bonuses (vs conditionals or granting SAs), or to specific stats and amounts?

If a character in your squad with this special ability has a higher printed cost than each other character in your squad, the specified allied characters get the stated bonus or combination of bonuses to Attack/Defense/Damage.

Conditionals would be bad though. That would really suck to write.


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:47 pm
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Sticking with the +4 Atk and +10 Dam.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:34 am
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Also, what if the Prideful Character is tied for the Highest?

If ties were to be allowed, I would note you could get the IK Strike Leader and then a couple more regular Knights instead of using new Roan to boost them.

Seems like Daala's cost was chosen with that in mind (along with a few other pieces), so if no ties is the intent, the wording should probably be something like this:

Prideful [If this character's printed cost is higher than any other character in your squad, ....]

Which then brings up the question, what happens if a higher cost character joins your squad later? (Internal Strife, Reserves 30 etc) If it should be locked in, could add 'at the start of the skirmish' to the wording.

Any other loopholes?


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:47 pm
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swinefeld wrote:
Prideful [If this character's printed cost is higher than any other character in your squad, ....]

Which then brings up the question, what happens if a higher cost character joins your squad later? (Internal Strife, Reserves 30 etc) If it should be locked in, could add 'at the start of the skirmish' to the wording.

Any other loopholes?


There is precedent (adding a Vigo via Reserves for Black Sun). I would suggest against the at the start of the skirmish, they would merely lose the benefit. Do need to add a bit about while she is on the table, to make it clear that it loses the effect when defeated.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:33 am
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Quote:
Prideful [If this character has a higher printed cost than any other character in your squad, Imperial allies with a Damage value greater than 0 get +4 Attack and +10 Damage until this character is defeated]

Is that sufficient?


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:17 pm
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Can you QC this piece.

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:50 pm
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Heh, didn't think there was anything left I hadn't posted yet.

Quote:
27. Admiral Daala
cost 27

60 HP
14 DEF
+6 ATK
10 DMG

Unique
Rapport [Non-Unique Imperial characters without a Force rating cost 1 less when in the same squad as this character]

Imperial Reserves 20 [If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round]

Prideful [While this character has a higher printed cost than any other character in your squad, Imperial allies with a Damage value greater than 0 get +4 Attack and +10 Damage until this character is defeated]

CE:
Imperial troopers gain Charging Fire +10 [Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +10 Damage].


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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:48 pm
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Thanks

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Post subject: Re: Admiral Daala*PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:33 pm
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+1