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Was just curious, why are the epic pieces restricted to their own game mode? They don't seem like they'd be broken in standard play. What effect would they have on meta if they were allowed to be used during standard squad building?
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adamb0nd wrote:Was just curious, why are the epic pieces restricted to their own game mode? They don't seem like they'd be broken in standard play. What effect would they have on meta if they were allowed to be used during standard squad building? I'm not one of the people behind the decision, but I think it has something to do with the fact that the Epic figs were not designed or playtested for use in 200pt squads. They were designed and tested with 500pt games in mind. But if you want to start using them at 200pts, then (assuming your gaming group is in favor) have at it! They're not usually too much more powerful than the 100pt BHC pieces, which are legal at 200. Just don't expect to be able to use them at Regionals or the Championship.
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Yeah, I think they were balanced, like tint said, more towards each other in high point games, rather than against smaller pieces in smaller games.
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So it's just a matter of play testing?
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It has more to do with intent. The initial Epics were all designed and balanced to face each other in higher point games. They were never intended for the standard game.
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Epics are fanboy pieces.
They really don't have any place in a 200 point skirmish. Their presence would cause massive balance headaches. Without worrying about the balance at 200 designers can be more liberal with theme and special abilities.
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fingersandteeth wrote:Epics are fanboy pieces.
They really don't have any place in a 200 point skirmish. Their presence would cause massive balance headaches. Without worrying about the balance at 200 designers can be more liberal with theme and special abilities. I don't think it would really cause that much of a balance issue at 200 points, considering they are the all your eggs in one basket type characters at that level, so in general you don't have the room to properly support them. I could certainly be mistaken in that (independant playtesting required to find out for sure), but as I personally have no interest in the Epics I can safely offer an unbiased opinion.
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Better safe than sorry. They weren't designed/playtested for it. If they were legal they could break the game. Might not, but let's not find out.
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All that being said, I'd be fine with trying them in normal 200pt matches (for fun, not competitive tournaments), and just see how things go. I think that in most cases, a decent normal 200pt should usually win. The Epics cost 2x more (usually) than their biggest regular version, but they don't have 2x the HP and 2x the Def, so it's actually a pretty huge gamble to use an Epic. Furthermore, anyone with Lobot can bring in Wicket and an R4 droid to drop their Def by 8 (traps and targetting), so in many cases the epic will die pretty quickly.
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As listeners of SWMiniverse know, we've tried a number of formats in our weekly league. Some of those have allowed (or required) an Epic (or two) to be in the squad. We've mostly done this in 300 point squads with activation or # of figure limits. (That's mostly because we want to get a few games in during the available time at the host store.) When both players have an Epic, it seems more balanced and fun. Without an Epic a player seems to be at a disadvantage. Granted, we generally haven't done these games during warm-ups to Regionals so we haven't seen the matchup of a Tier 1 squad vs the Epic squad. That might be a good match-up, but I agree that playtesting would have to be done to confirm/dispel that thought. thereisnotry wrote:The Epics cost 2x more (usually) than their biggest regular version, but they don't have 2x the HP and 2x the Def, so it's actually a pretty huge gamble to use an Epic. Agreed. thereisnotry wrote:Furthermore, anyone with Lobot can bring in Wicket and an R4 droid to drop their Def by 8 (traps and targetting), so in many cases the epic will die pretty quickly. True, but you're more likely to use those when you know you'll face an Epic rather than in a normal build.
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Chargers wrote:thereisnotry wrote:Furthermore, anyone with Lobot can bring in Wicket and an R4 droid to drop their Def by 8 (traps and targetting), so in many cases the epic will die pretty quickly. True, but you're more likely to use those when you know you'll face an Epic rather than in a normal build. Yes, which is why I said "anyone with Lobot" can bring in those pieces. You choose your Reinforcements after seeing your opponent's squad. The main purpose of Lobot is to be able to tailor your squad to respond to many different potential threats.
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