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Alternate activation control ideas... Options
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:59:36 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
How about setting it to where if you have more then 15? acts your opponent starts with 5 gambit for every piece over 15. (obviously 15 is just a starting point and any number works.) This gives the person with high acts incentives to:
A. play fast to catch back up on gambit
B. not to run WAY to many activations
C. gives people a reason to run lower acts to avoid giving their opponents points.


Several challenges to overcome with this approach:

* Not all play formats have gambit or are based on victory points, so the wording would be awkward to specify which play formats this impacts. Some Epic formats have 25 point gambit. How would it work with that format?
* It's an auto-loss if you have too many activations. That shouldn't happen.
* Makes it even harder for factions without activation control. They can run 20+ activations, still be outactivated by Dodonna, but then they would be the one paying the gambit penalty instead of Dodonna.
* 15 is arbitrary. How to determine the appropriate number?

Very interesting idea, but has a lot of work before it would be viable. How would you word it?



1. Well, I was only addressing the problem based on 200 point tournament play.
2. its an autoloss if you have run WAY more activations then the set number so its easy to just not run that many pieces so that you dont get an autoloss.
3. I see this as the biggest problem so far because you are right for sure, but how many factions WITHOUT activation control typically run 20+activations? I have only seen this happen a few times ever. And you could say that a squad WITH activation control and over the set limit pay the penalty that way it does not have any effect on the factions without access to act control.
4. I would say that the appropriate number would have to be determined by majority of the people still playing the game. I would say that 18 is the magic number but that is just me.


As far as how to word it lets see if it was a tournament rule i would say something along the lines of:

If a squad contains a character that changes the number of activations per round then their opponent starts the game with 5 gambit for every character over 18 activations. (this includes characters brought in through reinforcements? whichever one is automatic, not the one that requires a roll to get.)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:16:01 PM
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Another idea to encourage engagement early in the round. Not really activation control, but it would blunt the "out-activate and then unload everything" squads:

Defensive Formation: If all characters in this character's squad are activated, characters in this squad gain +8 Defense.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:18:27 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
1. Well, I was only addressing the problem based on 200 point tournament play.


Makes sense since it is the most played, but the same cards need to work for every format. Tile Wars, Dynamic Duo, Multiplayer, Epic formats, from 25 points to 300 points, sealed, scenarios, etc.
crazybirdman
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:37:03 PM
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I do like Defensive Formation.

let's make a crazy version where defense goes up one point for each enemy character that activates after you are done.
SignerJ
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:01:27 PM
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Defensive formation is a nice idea, but it should probably be limited to non-melee attacks. I don't see how a Stormtrooper squad's defensive formation would raise the individual troopers' defenses against a lightsaber.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 4:16:03 PM
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crazybirdman wrote:
I do like Defensive Formation.

let's make a crazy version where defense goes up one point for each enemy character that activates after you are done.
I really like this idea, except for one reason: it will be a massive headache to keep track of. It's already hard enough to keep track of Gambit points...adding in a different defense boost every round will get old quickly.
theultrastar
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 4:36:16 PM
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How about limiting it to Unique pieces who have activated gain a +8 to their defense?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:15:16 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
I really like this idea, except for one reason: it will be a massive headache to keep track of. It's already hard enough to keep track of Gambit points...adding in a different defense boost every round will get old quickly.


Agree 100%. Keeping track of status and having to constantly count the defense boost would not be fun.



theultrastar wrote:
How about limiting it to Unique pieces who have activated gain a +8 to their defense?

Why not non-uniques? Uniques are likely be the biggest beneficiaries anyway... if you're being outactivated, there's a good chance it's because you have a lower-activation squad that is heavy on high-cost Uniques.
theultrastar
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:19:44 AM
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Mostly because I just don't believe in beefing up non uniques. It's just bad for the game.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:53:59 AM
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theultrastar wrote:
Mostly because I just don't believe in beefing up non uniques. It's just bad for the game.


Fair point. ThumpUp
thereisnotry
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 10:58:39 AM
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I think that Ultrastar has a good suggestion: gaining +8 Def after activating a piece (only if outactivated though!) is a great solution. Suggested wording for the SA:

Quote:
Screw You, Dodonna! [If there are more enemies than allies on the board, this character gets +8 Defense after he/she has activated.]

Maybe the name of the SA needs some work, though. :)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:12:15 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:
I think that Ultrastar has a good suggestion: gaining +8 Def after activating a piece (only if outactivated though!) is a great solution. Suggested wording for the SA:

Quote:
Screw You, Dodonna! [If there are more enemies than allies on the board, this character gets +8 Defense after he/she has activated.]

Maybe the name of the SA needs some work, though. :)


Worded that way, it wouldn't work if you have more characters than Dodonna's. You have 10 and they have 9, but with Dodonna they outactivate you... no bonus. Sad

Quote:
Defensive Formation: If all characters in this character's squad are activated, characters in this squad gain +8 Defense.


With this version you don't get the bonus until after your whole squad is activated, but you also don't have to count characters to figure out whether or not the bonus is active.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:53:58 AM
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Here's an idea that doesn't counter act control in general, but may help counter high act and mice drops here goes:

How about an ability that triggers when the character takes damage from an enemy character it deals 10 damage to everyone within 6 squares? This way you can place them in key positions and maybe take out some mice, swap fodder, swarms, etc. give it draw fire to have a secondary purpose. they have to trigger it so they can try to work around it as well that way it is not just an auto bomb type deal.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:00:47 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Here's an idea that doesn't counter act control in general, but may help counter high act and mice drops here goes:

How about an ability that triggers when the character takes damage from an enemy character it deals 10 damage to everyone within 6 squares? This way you can place them in key positions and maybe take out some mice, swap fodder, swarms, etc. give it draw fire to have a secondary purpose. they have to trigger it so they can try to work around it as well that way it is not just an auto bomb type deal.


That sounds like an interesting gameplay mechanic, but I don't know how that would work thematically.

Themeless Ability For Gameplay Purposes: When this character takes damage, all characters within 6 squares take 10 damage.

Hm. Needs a new name, probably.

Kind of like Thought Bomb, but only 10 dmg and triggers every time the character is damaged. Likely broken on a high-HP piece, though.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:05:56 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
Here's an idea that doesn't counter act control in general, but may help counter high act and mice drops here goes:

How about an ability that triggers when the character takes damage from an enemy character it deals 10 damage to everyone within 6 squares? This way you can place them in key positions and maybe take out some mice, swap fodder, swarms, etc. give it draw fire to have a secondary purpose. they have to trigger it so they can try to work around it as well that way it is not just an auto bomb type deal.


That sounds like an interesting gameplay mechanic, but I don't know how that would work thematically.

Themeless Ability For Gameplay Purposes: When this character takes damage, all characters within 6 squares take 10 damage.

Hm. Needs a new name, probably.

Kind of like Thought Bomb, but only 10 dmg and triggers every time the character is damaged. Likely broken on a high-HP piece, though.



oh yeah wouldnt be on anything big, just like a lobot reserves type piece maybe. maybe on a creature and call it
With a Rebel Yell! lol, seriously though something like Enraged Screech....

I dont know how thematic or realistic it is for a mouse droid to provide cover either lol :)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:08:25 PM
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It would also need to be on a Unique. Multiples of that sort of ability, or on a high HP piece would be very annoying. But a neat dynamic if on just one piece.
saber1
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:53:42 PM
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May I propose a new twist on bodyguards? Picture a cheap, 30-40 HP Fringe piece with Bodyguard and the following:

High Profile (While this character is adjacent to an ally and all other allies are considered activated, this character is considered the only legal target for enemies within 6 squares; all unactivated enemies within 6 squares must combine fire against this character)

This isn't an auto-equalizer as it requires thoughtful placement and will only work 1 turn before being turned to slag. However, 2-3 such pieces can make a large impact during key rounds.
thereisnotry
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:22:03 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Defensive Formation: If all characters in this character's squad are activated, characters in this squad gain +8 Defense.

There you go, I'm good with that. Mace LotLS and GOWK...Mace has a 38 Def in cover! Come and get it, Cad!

I think it's actually a pretty cool mechanic. It allows those low-activation Sith beatstick squads to actually work (because being out-acted early makes it easy for you to get the Def bonus), and it makes it far more difficult for your opponent to out-activate-and-smash.


The idea of dealing 10dmg to all enemies when you take damage...it's cool. But it CANNOT be on a non-unique, because you can set up a HUGE chain-reaction...a whole bunch of these pieces close together would do their entire HP in damage to everything within 6 of them, because each of them would keep taking damage until all of them had exploded in death. Unless it was a once-per-round kind of thing...but even then, having a free War-Throat on several pieces in one squad is a bit crazy.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014 5:43:57 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Defensive Formation: If all characters in this character's squad are activated, characters in this squad gain +8 Defense.

There you go, I'm good with that. Mace LotLS and GOWK...Mace has a 38 Def in cover! Come and get it, Cad!

I think it's actually a pretty cool mechanic. It allows those low-activation Sith beatstick squads to actually work (because being out-acted early makes it easy for you to get the Def bonus), and it makes it far more difficult for your opponent to out-activate-and-smash.


The idea of dealing 10dmg to all enemies when you take damage...it's cool. But it CANNOT be on a non-unique, because you can set up a HUGE chain-reaction...a whole bunch of these pieces close together would do their entire HP in damage to everything within 6 of them, because each of them would keep taking damage until all of them had exploded in death. Unless it was a once-per-round kind of thing...but even then, having a free War-Throat on several pieces in one squad is a bit crazy.



yeah and one good battle manipulation and a shot later and your own squad goes down in flames lol. I understand the point though. I think on a unique that can be brought in through lobot it could be cool, or you could just word it to where it has to be an enemy character that deals damage to them to trigger the effect that way you couldn't set off the chain the way you described above. so even if you had 5 of them and one of them triggers they would do the damage to the rest of them but their ability would not kick in because it was not an enemy that damaged them.
thereisnotry
Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:54:36 AM
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Yes, that works too. I know there are ways around this; I was just pointing out one of the loopholes we'd have to avoid. Your solution requiring an enemy to be the damage-r seems like a good way to go.
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