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Vehicle Replacement Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 5, 2013 8:01:30 PM
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When you replace a character via Vehicle, can you choose a replacement character that has hit points less than or equal to the damage that is on the original character? Obviously, the new character would then be immediately defeated, but is that a legal selection?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 5, 2013 8:07:48 PM
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Yes.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Monday, August 5, 2013 10:05:11 PM
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Now we just need to see someone win a tournament by making Grievous leap off of his bike to his death.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 9:56:14 AM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
Now we just need to see someone win a tournament by making Grievous leap off of his bike to his death.


Not sure if that was meant as a joke. It really depends on whether or not the new Grievous is competitive, which I guess is yet to be seen. However, if he is, I can absolutely see a suicide drop to Kaleesh as a viable strategy once Grievous is nearly dead. A 41 point head start is nothing to sneeze at. Of course, if the opponent has big Jedi, HoH is definitely a better option - you'll need the double/twin/JediHunter to take down big Jedi. But against a squad that maxes out at 35/40 cost characters, it may be better to run the Wheel Bike over and over until it's clear it won't get another turn alive. Then snatch 41 points from the opponent at the last minute.
urbanjedi
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 5:08:08 PM
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but your opponent still wins if they eliminate your entire squad.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 6:57:50 PM
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Well, I'm thinking of a scenario where grievous or Maul killing themselves triggers a game-winning Impusive ability or deathshot.
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 6:59:56 PM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
Well, I'm thinking of a scenario where grievous or Maul killing themselves triggers a game-winning Impusive ability or deathshot.


But do Seps really have access to either of those? There are only 2 pieces with Impulsive Shot, 1 is a Luke, there other is a piece you would be killing to trigger in Grievous, Kaleesh Warlord
Galactic Funk
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 8:04:12 PM
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urbanjedi wrote:
but your opponent still wins if they eliminate your entire squad.


Correct but not all games end with someone elimininating their opponents entire squad. Many games go to time. In this case there is a clear (and probably rare) opportunity to manipulate this rule to achieve a cheap victory. The opportunity to be able to do it is irritating.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 8:23:58 PM
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I'm thinking of a scenario where Grievous gallops at the end of a round and then gallops home to relative safety at the beginning of the next round. In his two gallops he takes out 25 points worth, for example, and damages a bunch of the rest of the squad. He's not absolutely safe, though. The opponent reaches him and takes him down to 20 hit points remaining. At the beginning of the next round, Grievous does a 3rd gallop and takes out another 25 points worth of enemies. Then, knowing that he won't last until his next turn, he drops down to Kaleesh Warlord. The opponent kills Kaleesh Warlord for 22 points. (This sort of scenario is probably most feasible if the opponent has several 15-30 point pieces with 60-90 hit points. Far less likely if the opponent has a huge 70 point beatstick.)

Score so far: Grievous' team 50, Opponent 22.

The rest of the skirmish plays pretty evenly, but the opponent does better. Grievous' team kills another 80 points worth of enemies. The opponent kills another 100 points. Grievous' team gains 5 rounds of gambit. The opponent gains 8 rounds of gambit. Then time is called.

Left on the board:
Grievous' team has 37 points worth of characters remaining on the board.
Opponent has 70 points worth of characters remaining on the board.

Final score: Grievous' team 165, Opponent 162. Despite having 3 more rounds of gambit and having almost double the strength left on the board, the opponent still loses.
Chargers
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:43:00 AM
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I really hope that the Errata/FAQ states that when you kill the replacement figure, you get the points of the original vehicle figure. Otherwise, being able to play a higher point figure with all the benefits and flexibility of it and then giving your opponent the lower replacement points is just wrong. That applies to any of the vehicles, not just one in particular.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:56:06 AM
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That seems unlikely based on the ruling that Sithborg made earlier. Then again, the glossary and FAQ aren't published yet, so I guess it's possible. You could maybe have a glossary entry like this:

Vehicle: At the end of this character's turn, you may replace this character with a Medium character of equal or lesser cost who counts as the given persona. The replacement character starts with damage equal to the damage currently on this character and is considered activated this round. When the replacement character would be defeated, it is not defeated but remove it from play. This character is defeated in its place.

But there might issues with that definition that conflict with Unique or something else. Anyway - we'll have to wait and see what the glossary/FAQ say.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:28:51 PM
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With how "replacement" has to work in this game, don't expect to gain points for the older character. I have a stack of precedent built up that means the replaced character is worth how much they are, even if the original character was worth more. You are going to have to convince the other designers if it is worth an errata to how Vehicle works to prevent bringing in the MOTF Greivious.
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:41:13 PM
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Vehicle: At the end of this character's turn, you may replace this character with another Medium or smaller character who counts as the same character. Remove this character from the game board and place the new character in a space this character occupied. This new character is activated. Place damage on the new character equal to the damage that was on this character. You cannot choose a character to replace the this character if the damage on this would defeat the new character.

Well that part of the glossary text does prevent some of the above scenarios.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:45:34 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
Vehicle: At the end of this character's turn, you may replace this character with another Medium or smaller character who counts as the same character. Remove this character from the game board and place the new character in a space this character occupied. This new character is activated. Place damage on the new character equal to the damage that was on this character. You cannot choose a character to replace the this character if the damage on this would defeat the new character.

Well that part of the glossary text does prevent some of the above scenarios.


Is that from the official glossary? If so, I didn't realize it was released... link?
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:49:48 PM
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FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 3:06:06 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
Vehicle: At the end of this character's turn, you may replace this character with another Medium or smaller character who counts as the same character. Remove this character from the game board and place the new character in a space this character occupied. This new character is activated. Place damage on the new character equal to the damage that was on this character. You cannot choose a character to replace the this character if the damage on this would defeat the new character.

Well that part of the glossary text does prevent some of the above scenarios.


It prevents the most abusive situation... where you having Grievous on Wheel Bike with 10hp left and you drop to MotF Grievous at the end of the turn, knowing you wouldn't get another turn with him anyway. With that sentence, you would have to make that move with 70hp remaining on the Wheel Bike. With 70hp and Damage Reduction 10, there's a very good chance you would get another turn with Grievous before he was defeated - so dropping to MotF Grievous could possibly be a huge, huge waste of a turn, and thus it's a huge risk.
Chargers
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:14:17 PM
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I like the extra sentence.
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:20:59 PM
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Good solution.
Galactic Funk
Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:24:48 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
Good solution.


Its a solution only if Grievous Tseu 6 ends up not being competitive. If he can be competitive then its still a problem.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:25:39 PM
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Bump. Just listened to SHNN from last week. I'm surprised this thread wasn't bumped.
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