Let me try to explain, it's complicated as I don't remember the exact original rule wording (just how it worked).

Originally Y worked within the bubble only and as I recall didn't grant Force Immunity blanketly. Just said something about figures within 6 can't be targeted by force powers, yada yada (let Scott jump in if he remembers the old rule specifically).

Fast forward to Gencon 2007, where Black and Blue made it's first appearance in 150 point championship. Took 2nd in the Friday tourney, and 1st and 3rd in the Sat (with a mirror being the only loss between 1 and 3). The final game was Matt Peterson (HoF) running an Exar Transfer squad. Basically Kun, a couple of Mutants, and a bunch of ugnaughts.

So Matt runs an ugg into Thrawn's bubble against Engineer in the Final game, says transfer into it, Engineer calls judge, judge is confused as Transfer specifically doesn't say target, so he calls Rob (WotC_Rob the game designer) who happened to be in the area and he comes over and says no, you can't transfer in.

After Gencon, we bring it up to Nickname and ask him to clarify the ruling with Rob. Rob responds that his answer was in fact wrong and that it should have been allowed. Next glossary update, Rob changes Y to make it stronger (which prevents the use of Transfer into Bubble). I argued it was a bad ruling then, never liked the rule change because though it made it simpler, it also created the undeflectable bullets, which is far worse.

So I advocate for redoing the glossary of Y again. I'll let some rule gurus define the best wording. I know there have been conversations about how to word it.

That said, it's an uphill battle. We've never changed a WotC ruling or glossary definition. Many are against that on principle. And it's understandable why. The simple matter is the moment we do one, many people will want 100 others.

It all seems very straightforward to me.

Melee is a RESTRICTION. It has an inherent disadvantage.

So the goal is to balance that disadvantage with other tools.

Do they need more tools? Yes. But those tools need to be designed wisely and have a specific scope.

Add a movement breaker, non-Melee benefits more. Add a blanket power/attack boost - non-Melee benefits more.

So it needs to be MELEE specific. Or MELEE force users.


It sounds like we're headed in that direction with design, and that is great.

But here's the catch that everyone seems to be ignoring: all the Melee boosts in the world will all be a waste of time if we keep putting out broken non-melee pieces.

We as the design team have to show more design restraint in general, but ESPECIALLY with shooters and non-uniques. And Extra especially with non-unique shooters (compounded even more if they are cheap).

This isn't solely exclusive to pieces without the Melee ability. Even pieces with Melee that benefit shooters, non-uniques, or simply boosts that benefit too broad of categories are all bad for the game. (Zygerrian slaver anyone?)

CDO's CE should probably have been for "named commando droid" only. Or at least "followers who's name contains commando droid" The fact that it wasn't at least limited to followers is ludicrous.

Has anyone ever played CDOs with WotC commando droids competitively? Talk about failing with the original purpose.

Nobody said, "hey, a squad of overpowered commander droids all boosting each other would be awesome!" But somehow we all missed that the CE was for all droids. Even commanders (face palm). We all were just focused on commando droids (WotC), and thinking - that's not broken.

All designers (myself included) need to proceed with caution and show more restraint. Give Melee some love, absolutely. But also be careful not to inadvertently boost non-Melee too, or release broken non-Melee figs.

We also need to stop boosting things that are already good. Just boosting WotC commando droids - noble. But big time fail. We boosted the ALREADY REALLY GOOD BX Spotter and Sniper, Durge, Poggle, etc.

We need laser focus to boost the pieces we are aiming at, not not catch too many other pieces with too wide of a net.

More boosts to "pieces NAMED" or at least "followers whose name contains". Stop giving boosts to simply allies. Stop giving boosts to all followers or all non-uniques.

The shotgun boosting approach clearly has consequences.

And let's stop making the pendulum swing back and forth dramatically. When the pendulum has swung far one way (and it has) the instinct is to give it a giant shove back. The better approach is slow down the momentum first and then give a little push back.

We as designers need to stop putting out some of the most crazy overpowered shooters in the game and then complain that Melee is hurting.

The Commando Droid Officers, Admiral Daalas, Zygerrian Slavers, and Snowtrooper Officers need to stop.

In addition, designs like Domain Lah Warriors, Yun Ne'shel Priests, Padawan Commanders, Peace Brigade Soldiers, all the latest Republic Commandos, Togorian Black Sun Vigos, Mira of Nar Shaddaas, Peace Brigade commanders, Han Solo Correlian Legend, Te Ani'la Mand'alor, Boba Fett Assassin for Hires, Durge on Speeder,and Luke and Leia on Speeder, need to be toned down, better focused, and achieve intent with more accuracy. And intent needs to stop being "let's make this really awesome shooter", or "let's make this squad of shooters top tier"

We need to think about what new pieces might replace. "Klats need to be better than Kel-Dors or they'll never get played". Guess what - that was successful. The Keldor has never been bad, it didn't need to be replaced. The Klat was never needed in our game. Domain Lah Warriors were never needed. They completely replace the High-Bred warriors, which were already REALLY GOOD. Why were we trying to replace the battle droid officer? Already REALLY GOOD.

Hey those genosian drones are pretty good - how do we make them better? I know - the Zygerrian Slaver! (Sadly, this was not oversight, it was the actual intent of this piece).

This type of thinking needs to stop.

We need to think - "What is very good? How do we give tools to help combat it, without inadvertently also helping it?"
and "What really needs help? How do we boost them without boosting other things that don't need help?"

These questions should be at the base of every piece. And it's not.

Good post, Tim.



I think I've seen statements like this posted in design threads in the past.

The Padawan Commander would be fine, if not for the Naboo. IMO.

I think I am going to print this out with some nice font and post it to my wall and look at it every night.
This post screams what I (personally) would love to see and have been trying to say.

+100

Piggybacking a bit off of Billiv's recent holocron customs, I was thinking it would be cool if a v-sub-set was focused on holograms and holocrons. Call it 'Apparitions' or something.

Possible includes (ignore name specifics)
Sith Force Holocron
Sith Lightsaber Holocron
Jedi Force Holocron
Jedi Lightsaber Holocron
Jedi Praxeum Holocron (NR Specific)
Yoda Hologram
Emperor Palpatine, Hologram
Darth Vader, Hologram
Darth Maul, Hologram
Maybe a force spirit that hasn't been made yet to get to 10